Saturday, December 07, 2013

Chris Rosebrough broadcasts discussing Mefferd over this week

December 5, 2013

December 7, 2013

HT Jim West: Jonathan Merritt notes that Ingrid Schlueter, part-time assistant producer to Janet Mefferd, has resigned

A comment from Ryan Abernathy jumped out.

Ryan Abernathy
              Dec 7, 2013 at 9:59 am
               Interesting side note, Ingrid Schlueter used to blog at Slice of Laodecia back in 2009. She was violently anti-Driscoll over his sex sermon series on Song of Solomon. Strange that her name turns up here in this mess and that she resigns after the apology. Makes me wonder how much influence she had on the piece at its inception, the tone of the interview, and the research done on the piece. I think there is definitely an issue for Driscoll here- the info looks improperly cited at the least, but I wonder if Ingrid may have overstepped a bit considering her past history with Driscoll. - See more at:

This isn't strange at all for anyone familiar with how far back Schlueter's criticism of Driscoll goes.  Her name appeared amongst those vehemently critical of Driscoll so far back it may even pre-date the 2007 firings.  Her public criticism and comments about Driscoll should be easily found and can provide some additional context for whatever has happened.  Here's a brief example. It piggy-backed on Steve Camp at the time but is a useful and short reference point.

Jim West has also got a post noting that Julie Ann @ Defend the sheep has spotted a connection between Tyndale and Salem Radio.

Schlueter had a blog going for a while called Slice of Laodicea.

Thursday, December 05, 2013

Nelson Mandela has died

What can and will be said about the man can and will be said by others more succinctly and eloquently than Wenatchee The Hatchet could ever manage. 

But Wenatchee will note Mandela's passing, however briefly.  And with that Wenatchee The Hatchet is done blogging for today.

The WayBack Machine only goes so way back: a comment to Carl Trueman's First Things article is a dead end. Guess which one?

David ReimerDecember 4th, 2013 | 4:14 pm As for disappearing content, I suppose that’s one of the things the Wayback Machine is for. - See more at:

What a difference just a few hours can make.
Try to follow this link and see what happens.  It'll be interesting.


This url is not available on the live web or can not be archived.

Want to search for all archived pages under ?

and you'll get zip.  Let's try that other link, too. What do we get?  Rorshach would go


Wayback Machine doesn't have that page archived.
Want to search for all archived pages under ?

Well, since they suggested it.  What happens?

For the moment ...


Wayback Machine doesn't have that page archived.
Want to search for all archived pages under ?

So what does Janet Mefferd's blog look like right now?

About like this:

Live: Monday - Friday  2pm - 5pm ET

Janet's Blog

There are no posts at this time. Please check back soon.

As an experiment you can do at home see if you can get any results for any of these links in The WayBack Machine
In light of the parade of comments on a recent thread, guess what?  :)  Comments are closed!  In advance. 

Wednesday, December 04, 2013

Jeff Bettger no longer a pastor at Mars Hill Church

The name will mean possibly nothing to anyone outside of Mars Hill but his name vanishing from the list of men in the pastor listings of Mars Hill would be impossible for Wenatchee The Hatchet to not eventually notice, even amid holiday activities.

You won't find Jeff Bettger's name on there now. But there is this:
It opens with an extensive citation from Ephesians 5 and proceeds, we'll cite just a few segments of the post:

We are exposed when standing in the light of the sun. Anyone with working eyes in our proximity can see us when we are not hidden in shadow and darkness. An affection for Jesus can expose all kinds of injustices, and human corruption. I believe that is what Paul is speaking of in this passage. We are reconciled image bearers of the living God of the universe. He made us to reflect as mirrors His glory grace love mercy justice and wrath against all that is corrupt and evil. When governments and human institutions are unjust or act in shady ways we are to expose the truth. When a person we know is caught in lies and things that hurt and destroy themselves and others we are to call them out. We have been given a conscience. Unfortunately we are hypocrites and often want to be right more than humble truthful and just.


Having a mega church background for the last 16 years I have witnessed first hand the tyranny of injustice done in the name of God. Layoffs during Christmas, weeks after new children are born and first homes purchased. The use of tithe money to purchase books at retail cost in order to build a mans platform and make the NY times best seller lists. [Update 12-5-2013 8.18pm PST: WtH, this sentence has been excised from the original post since the publication of this post, it is preserved with strikethrough with the proviso that jsuffering has stated that it was hearsay] All with the name of God stamped on it, and self justified because the rest of the business world has those kinds of practices. I am grieved for the state of a church that does not acknowledge and expose the sin of it’s leaders with love and humility but instead claims it is doing whats best for the body of Christ.


I am the chief of sinners in this way. I have held my cards close to my heart in order for self preservation. I have been complicit by not speaking out boldly and allowing things to stay hidden. I do not need to do that anymore. I am free to walk in the light even if it takes me into suffering, and chastisement. I Love Jesus and choose Him over a fabricated Americanized version of what we call church. I repent and walk in the light as He is in the light. No more playing politics and calling it church.

There's more in the post that Jeff Bettger wrote that you can read in the link.

Warren Throckmorton: Janet Mefferd removes evidence relating to charges of plagiarism against Mark Driscoll, apologizes to audience

The link pretty much speaks for itself in the title but is available for further consultation. 

Sutton Turner explains what the Mars Hill Foundation for Planting Churches is

Earlier at Wenatchee The Hatchet we noted the emergence of the Mars Hill Foundation for Planting Churches, which was also noted in a recent comment.  See the listing for Washington States' Secretary of State listing:

UBI Number603349072
State Of IncorporationWA
WA Filing Date10/30/2013
Expiration Date10/31/2014
Inactive Date

The usual/expected registered agent appears:

Agent NameC T Corporation System
Address505 Union Ave Se Ste 120

and the governing persons are no surprise:

Governing Persons
DirectorTURNER, JOHN1411 NW 50TH ST

So what is the foundation for?  Maybe Sutton Turner can field this one.


Mars Hill | New Discussion Topic

Pastor Sutton Turner
From Pastor Sutton Turner:
Proverbs 13:22a says, “A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children.” As much as this text applies to monetary wealth, I firmly believe that this also applies to a spiritual and godly inheritance: A legacy of the gospel. We want people who have been saved by Jesus to raise children who love Jesus, who raise children who love Jesus, who raise children who love Jesus. This is also true of our mission of church planting. We want to plant churches who plant churches who plant churches. This takes thinking beyond our own generation. It takes thinking outside of ourselves, our comfort, our prosperity.
We have now officially begun the Mars Hill Foundation for Planting Churches! This is huge for Mars Hill Church and is such a giant step toward ensuring that we are not a one-generation church. This will be available for you, our Mars Hill Church family, as well as our Extended Family of Mars Hill who want to give above and beyond what they currently are.
Donations to the Endowment Fund will be invested for church planting and replanting, including capital improvements, such as real estate due diligence, purchasing real estate, remodeling buildings, new construction, furnishings, audio/visual/lighting/acoustic upgrades, and equipment. The funds may also be used for any operating expenses in the first thirty-six months of a church plant or replant, such as staffing costs, training, debt service, and utilities.
Each church that benefits from the use of the funds will repay the Endowment through an amortization schedule established at each Mars Hill church plant. This will enable our church plants to then support new, additional church planters through the Endowment Fund. And the legacy will continue. For example, let’s say a donor gives $500,000 to the Endowment Fund in 2013. The Endowment Fund then uses $100,000 to launch Mars Hill Tacoma. Tacoma uses $30,000 for a new projector, $30,000 for a new roof, and $40,000 for new bathrooms. Then over the next five years—while Jesus is being proclaimed and people are getting saved and lives are being changed—Mars Hill Tacoma pays the $100,000 back to the Endowment Fund along with 6 percent interest. Then, in 2018, the Endowment Fund now has $115,000 to launch the next Jesus-preaching church plant.
You can donate to the Foundation by going to and select “Foundation/Endowment Fund” in the pull-down menu. Checks can be written to the Mars Hill Foundation for Planting Churches, and denote Endowment in the memo line. We are so excited about this development and what it means for generations of church-planting efforts. Please pray and ask God if he would have you leave a spiritual inheritance for our children’s children in America and across the world.
For more information, visit

  View this topic on The City »

Per the link to

Endowment Fund
The aim of the Endowment Fund is to create a fund that repays itself and plants churches in perpetuity. Donors give to a restricted fund where the principal corpus can be lent to local churches for their church-planting expenses. Once the church is planted, the funds are paid back to the Endowment Fund over a 5- to 10-year period. The beauty is that each church plant effectively funds the next. Donations are tax deductible.

Then there's also this:

Mars Hill Church Investment Fund, LLC

UBI Number603353130
State Of IncorporationWA
WA Filing Date11/26/2013
Expiration Date11/30/2014
Inactive Date

The expiration date for Mars Hill Church looks like it's 12/31/2013 here
UBI Number601677819
State Of IncorporationWA
WA Filing Date12/22/1995
Expiration Date12/31/2013
Inactive Date

Presented for your consideration, in case it might be of interest.

Mark Driscoll shows us the hat and not the cattle, part 2: Driscoll takes on editorial duties and plugs his journalistic credentials in the wake of the Mefferd interview

After so much time spent making fun of bloggers, belittling bloggers, and lamenting that bloggers are the sorts of people who may be middle-aged jobless guys blogging from their mama's basements, all of a sudden Mark Driscoll has seen the light and wants to advise bloggers how to write better blog posts.  The actual advice Driscoll gives is neither here nor there, it's the announcement near the lead that is interesting.

I’ve taken on editorial duties at Resurgence, at least for a season. This means I’m reviewing nearly every blog article before we post it and giving content feedback in an effort to help our writers get their message out even further.

So Driscoll has decided to take on editorial duties at The Resurgence, "at least for a season" because ... ?  Because there's no better time than in the weeks after Janet Mefferd has recently alleged that Mark Driscoll is a plagiarist for Mark Driscoll to decide to do prior review and editorial work on the blog posts of other people who write for The Resurgence?  The timing seems a bit weird.   Driscoll goes on to clarify his credentials in professional journalism again.

While we're on the subject of Resurgence and The Resurgence here's a recent blog post about it being a for-profit company.  Moving along ... Driscoll writes:

I don’t pretend to be the world’s greatest writer. But I did start writing professionally as a journalist in high school, paid my way through high school and college writing articles and editing my college newspaper, got a bachelor’s degree in Communications from the top-notch Edward R. Murrow School of Communication, and have written blogs and articles for everyone from CNN to the Washington Post to Fox News.

So Driscoll started writing professionally as a journalist in high school.  Which paper?  Which articles?  Does The Daily Evergreen actually count as professional journalism? Who was Driscoll's editor or section editor? His advisor?  Perhaps his old high school paper has his articles archived somewhere for consultation and perhaps Justin Dean can go dig those up and post them all for our benefit?  The same could be said for the newspaper Driscoll mentioned editing during his stint at Washington State University, though he's never seemed to bother mentioning publications by name.

Driscoll also mentioned that he paid his way through high school and college writing articles. Paid for what?  Which publications published him?  School papers, whether in high school or college, are not in the habit of paying their writers, to put it mildly, so which publications were paying Mark Driscoll for the articles he said he's written.  Let's remember that while Mark Driscoll got his degree in speech communications Grace Driscoll (nee Martin) was getting her degree in public relations.  It would seem far more likely that Grace Driscoll had more income and career mobility in the early years of their relationship than Driscoll was going to have writing articles for publications he has not yet named. 

Driscoll was also editing the WSU newspaper, too, and got a BA from the top-notch, well, we all know that he keeps referring to the Edward R. Murrow school of communications. 

So let's fish about for an earlier time when Mark Driscoll leaned on his credentials as a professional journalist.

The trouble started with a Southern Baptist blogger . . . yes, you should have seen that one coming. Now, to be fair, the blogger quoted an anonymous “source.” And, we all know that almost everything bloggers say is true. But, when they have something as solid as an anonymous “source,” then you can rest assured that when Jesus talked about the truth over and over in John, this is precisely what he was referring to. I have a degree from Washington State’s Edward R. Murrow College of Communication and worked professionally as a journalist, and I can assure you that The Kerfuffle is a very serious matter to be taken with the utmost sobriety and propriety. In fact, one anonymous “source” I spoke to said that Watergate pales in comparison.
Ah, there's an example.  This looks like it was slightly more than a month before Mark and Grace Driscoll bought that million-dollar house in Woodway that has not-quite-so-recently been shuffled over to the Downs Family Trust.

But that wasn't the only time in 2012 Driscoll leaned on his background in communications.  There was of course this:

... I have a degree in communications from one of the top programs in the United States. So does my wife, Grace. We are used to reporters with agendas and selective editing of long interviews. Running into reporters with agendas and being selectively edited so that you are presented as someone that is perhaps not entirely accurate is the risk one takes when trying to get their message out through the media.

With the release of our book, Real Marriage, we have now done literally dozens of interviews with Christians and non-Christians. But the one that culminated in the forthcoming article was, in my opinion, the most disrespectful, adversarial, and subjective. As a result, we’ve since changed how we receive, process, and moderate media interviews.  ...

And yet, after all that, the November 21, 2013 interview with Janet Mefferd ended up happening anyway. 

Wenatchee The Hatchet has addressed the matter of Mark Driscoll waving his hat at us but not showing us the cattle before. The most that could be dredged up with a "Mark Driscoll" in the by-line associated with Washington State University that made it into any Google anything is this:!topic/alt.politics.homosexuality/_wIu7wH18SY

This is about the third time (or more) that Driscoll has leaned on the statement that he's worked professionially as a journalist and now the professional work goes back into high school and was how he paid his way.  Great, all the more reason to distribute as complete a portfolio of published work from that period as possible. 

Until then, we can rest assured knowing that Mark Driscoll is taking on editorial duties at Resurgence for a season because, after all, Mark Driscoll's professional journalistic experience is so formidable it's the big reason nobody, anywhere, should for a second have any reason to wonder about the reliability of Driscoll's fact-checking, source-citing, or capacity to properly assess the reliability of sources and ideas.

Oh ... wait ... .

Monday, December 02, 2013

On Mission, LLC (entity that owns copyright of Real Marriage)--back and forth between WA and CO

The first thing to establish is that On Mission, LLC is the entity that owns the copyright for the book Real Marriage by Mark and Grace Driscoll. Here is what is available through the Washington corporation search with the Secretary of State

UBI Number603258287
State Of IncorporationCO
WA Filing Date12/06/2012
Expiration Date12/31/2013
Inactive Date

Registered Agent Information

Agent NameC T Corporation System
Address505 Union Ave Se Ste 120

[For those unfamiliar with CT Corporation System, a potential starting point?]

Governing Persons

So there's that stuff.  Note that the state of incorporation is actually Colorado and not Washington. 

So let's take a visit over to the corporation search for the state of Colorado and ...

StatusGood StandingFormation date01/28/2011
ID number20111058965FormLimited Liability Company
Periodic report monthJanuaryJurisdictionColorado
Term of durationPerpetual
Principal office street address4570 Hilton Parkway, Ste 203, Colorado Springs, CO 80907, United States
Principal office mailing addressn/a
Registered Agent
NameBill Moritz
Street address 4570 Hilton Parkway, Ste 203, Colorado Springs, CO 80907, United States
Mailing address n/a

Bill Moritz ring any bells?

For those interested, here are

Articles of Organization
Periodic Report
Another Periodic Report


Mefferd posts more material presented as evidence of Driscoll plagiarism, a couple of additional details

"Another example of uncited material has been uncovered in a book written by Pastor Mark Driscoll. In this case, it occurred in the book he and his wife, Grace, wrote in 2012, called Real Marriage” (Published by Thomas Nelson; 2012). This example first was noticed and cited by the blog Wenatchee the Hatchet on Sept. 30, 2013:"

For clarification, the first time Wenatchee The Hatchet mentioned the subject of Grace Driscoll's chapter 7 from Real Marriage in connection to Dan Allender was actually July 4, 2013 but it was not until September 30, 2013 that a back-to-back comparison of Driscoll and Allender was published.  The 9/30/2013 post presented to show just how much conceptual overlap there is between Grace Driscoll's use of the terms "Good Girl", "Tough Girl", and "Party Girl" in Real Marriage on the one hand, and Allender's coining of the terms in his 1990 book on the other.  But if you want to read the first post where Wenatchee noticed the overlap between Grace Driscoll's chapter 7 in Real Marriage and Dan Allender's chapter 9 of The Wounded Heart you'll actually want to go to this blog post and not just the one from September 30, 2013.

The evidence comparing Driscoll to Edmondson has already been subject to some disagreement.  Sure, citing comments from people using pseudonyms at The Wartburg Watch is not going to pass muster with many but the point here is to show that one person thinks Edmondson may have plagiarized Driscoll and not the other way around:
Jon CANADA on said:
@ Daisy:

Did Driscoll plagiarize other works? It sure looks that way. But what I’m saying is that her latest accusation casts more doubt on Edmondson — Driscoll’s forgiveness stuff came from a sermon on Luke preached in 2010 (before Edmondson’s blog). So again, this evidence shows that Edmondson plagiarized Driscoll.

username TW went so far as to suggest that both Driscoll and Edmondson may have borrowed or used material from someone else entirely:
Jon wrote:
Driscoll preached the same stuff in a sermon from Luke 11 in September of 2010 so maybe Ron Edmonson plagiarized Mark …
Jon may be correct about Driscoll’s material not coming from Edmonson. I found the sermon I think Jon is referring to here:
Driscoll preached it on September 26, 2010. The earliest list I could find from Edmonson was on a blog post dated May 20, 2011:

I took some notes on Driscoll’s sermon and came up with these 10 points:
forgiveness is not approving or diminishing sin.
forgiveness is not enabling sin
forgiveness is not denying the wrong doing
forgiveness is not waiting for an apilogy
forgiveness is not forgetting
forgiveness is not ceasing to feel the pain
forgiveness is not a one time event
forgiveness is not neglecting justice
forgiveness is not trusting
forgiveness is not reconciliation

While conducting my search however I came across some material that may perhaps indicate both Driscoll and Edmonson didn’t give credit where credit is due.
In Ray Pritchard’s “The Healing Power of Forgiveness,” published in 2005 Pritchard writes:

Sometimes when we say we can’t or won’t forgive, we are actually talking about something other than biblical forgiveness. Let me list a few things forgiveness does not mean:

1. It does not mean approving of what someone else did.
2. It does not mean pretending that evil never took place.
3. It does not mean making an excuse for other people’s bad behavior.
4. It does not mean justifying evil so that sin somehow becomes less sinful.
5. It does not mean overlooking abuse.
6. It does not mean denying that others tried to hurt you repeatedly.
7. It does not mean letting others walk all over you.
8. It does not mean refusing to press charges when a crime has been committed.
9. It does not mean forgetting the wrong that was done.
10. It does not mean pretending you were never hurt.
11. It does not mean you must restore the relationship to what it was before.
12. It does not mean you must become friends again.
13. It does not mean there must be a total reconciliation as if nothing ever happened.
14. It does not mean that you must tell the person you have forgiven them.
15. It does not mean that all the negative consequences of sin are canceled.

I would think it would behoove Mark Driscoll to come clean. He has way to many people checking into his work now.

Some of the citations Mefferd has made have themselves come up for question by those who are not convinced of specific cases.  There are those who think Edmondson may have copied Driscoll and others who think both may have used material from Ray Pritchard.

Wenatchee The Hatchet is not really in a position to field the Driscoll/Edmondson/Pritchard nexus, but can at least clarify that mention at this blog of the Driscoll/Allender overlap goes back as far as July 4, 2013. 

At the risk of being even more pedantic than some readers might already suspect, Allender uses the terms "Good Girl", "Tough Girl" and "Party Girl" but makes a point, in a very long endnote, that the terms are not meant to be strictly seen as referring to females but are just a shorthand that refers to a general style of relating that may be used by males and females. 

From July 2, 2012, a Mark Driscoll Facebook status quotes Wilson Mizner--"To steal from one author is plagiarism; to steal from many is research".

Mark Driscoll · 229,266 like this
July 2, 2012 at 3:22pm ·
  • "To steal from one author is plagiarism; to steal from many is research." – Wilson Mizner
Can't have been the only one to have spotted this comment from way back in 2012. 

Sunday, December 01, 2013

old posts from Jared Wilson and Mark Driscoll from 1/2009 establish background for MHC use of Docent and the 1 & 2 Peter book

From Jared Wilson's old blog

Monday, January 12, 2009

Sermon Research Assistance

In a recent blog post, Mark Driscoll gives a shout-out to Docent Research Group and Justin Holcomb for assisting him with some of the research that has been aiding him in sermon prep and book writing. It's a valuable plug for a valuable service.

I've had the privilege of working for Docent and with Justin for quite a while, thanks to my friend Glenn Lucke, Docent's creator and president, and it has been a joy and a privilege helping some of America's most respected pastors prepare to teach their communities the word of God. ...

And from Mark Driscoll

... In the past year and a half the Executive Elders of the church have freed up more of my time and energy to grow in my study and communication of Scripture. This includes a Preaching and Theology branch being built for me under the leadership of Pastor AJ Hamilton. Our team has some amazingly gifted people in areas such as video, audio, lighting, set design, graphics, theming, promotions, and more. The team has become so skilled that they actually recently finished filming their first full-length film in Hollywood as a side project. And, if that were not enough, my friends at Logos Bible Software have loaded up my MacBook Pro with the best Bible study tools and books ever assembled in a software package. So, in addition to my personal library of perhaps 4,000-5,000 books, I now have even more books on my laptop, which enables me to work even during days of solitude or travel.

and, in the same paragraph:

... On top of all this, I have an amazing research assistant and friend from Docent Research Group named Justin Holcomb, who earned two M.A.'s from Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando and a Ph.D. in theological studies from Emory University. He teaches courses in religious studies and sociology at the University of Virginia and at Reformed Theological Seminary, and he serves as the Director of Graduate Ministries at the Center for Christian Study in Charlottesville, Virginia. He has been humble enough to do a great deal of research for me, which, along with the work of my helpful friend and editing assistant Deacon Crystal Griffin, allows me to produce content at a pace I would never have thought possible. Between articles, blogs, books, and curriculum, I am now sending out literally thousands of pages of content a year, as well as preaching and teaching hundreds of hours of content a year. In short, I have been lavishly blessed, and I love my job as much as anyone could ever love a job. Admittedly, the hours are long and the work is hard, but I am doing exactly what God made me to do and placed in my heart among my deepest desires. ...

The paragraph eventually winds up to an end not with a period but with a colon:

... This all culminates in the Trial series on 1-2 Peter, which sets a new standard for all future preaching series. I have so benefited from the service of others that I wanted to do more than ever to help our people learn these amazing books of the Bible. So this Sunday we kick things off, and here is what you will get:
  • A free copy of the Trial curriculum book, which is also available online for free. This 200-page book includes my introductory articles on Peter, the books he wrote, and the role of parents in instructing their children. Included in the free book are dinner discussion questions I wrote to help parents teach 1-2 Peter to their own children. Pastor Brad House has also included the Community Group discussion questions for the entire series.
  • A free copy of a 12,000-word introduction and overview of 1-2 Peter compiled by my research assistant. This content is available only on The City, our password-protected social networking site. If you register for The City at one of our campuses during the series, you will get this special gift that will not be posted online for the general public.
  • Lastly, the children's ministry will also spend the next seven months studying 1-2 Peter, as we have also developed our own curriculum for them following the sermon series.
The above will probably be germane to any continuing discussion of Janet Mefferd's allegation that Mark Driscoll is a plagiarist.  Driscoll's name is attached to some content in the book but the Trial book as a whole, even by Mark Driscoll's account, is not a strictly Driscollian creation. 

POSTSCRIPT: Bear in mind all the links cited in the above source materials date from 2009.  There's always going to be inattentive readers who won't realize the stuff being quoted is years old.  Don't assume that the links provided by Jared Wilson and Mark Driscoll in 2009 are to events and locations that are current.  Note that the Wilson link is to, which predates the current equivalent. 

I've included the content as it is in the source materials because I try to refrain from altering the content of the original sources cited but people familiar with Jared C Wilson's blog should already know, for instance, how out of date all the materials at the linked blog are by now.