Saturday, November 17, 2012

HT Jim West: Beale lectures on the use of Old Testament in New Testament documents


http://zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/beale-on-the-old-testament-in-the-new/

The subject of the OT in the NT has been near and dear to my heart since ThM days when I wrote my thesis on John’s use of Isaiah. So many thanks to Cliff Kvidahl for mentioning this-
Last week, Dr. Greg Beale (Professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology) gave the Gheens Lectures at Southern Seminary. His topic was the New Testament’s use of the Old Testament, one for which Dr. Beale has written extensively on. His three lectures were:

Recent Developments in Old Testament in New Testament Studies that Challenges the Organic Integrity of the Testaments
A Classic Proposed Example of the Misuse of the Old Testament in the New Testament: Hosea 11:1 in Matthew 2:15
The Problem of Allusion and the Implications for Interpretation and Biblical Theology

It's an old post (from more than a year ago) but for folks into lectures on biblical texts these are fun. 

Got other things I hope to blog about over the next week but the holiday season is upon us and some of the stuff I hope to blog about requires some things like, well, score analysis and note-taking.  Chamber Music 3 may turn into another linkathon more than a set of essays.  I keep wanting to come back to a blog post idea in which I go through the cyclical development of a set of ideas in Koshkin's sonata for flute and guitar .... but anyone who even knows that work knows just how much work such a project would actually be.  I don't know if I'd say you could net a master's thesis from that level of musicological work ... but it's work all the same.  It's going to be worth eventually getting to because I think the sonata for flute and guitar is one of Koshkin's most substantial both in terms of sheer size and in terms of the developmental economy of his thematic material.  I wish I could say the guitar sonata he wrote for Papendreou was at the same level but ... that'd be another blog post for another time.  Much as I have enjoyed many pieces by Koshkin he can fall prey to a propensity to under-develop musical ideas in exchange for a dramatic, blustery texture or gesture ...

But this blog post is "technically" a set of links to lectures given by Greg Beale on Old Testament texts in New Testament texts. :)  Again, HT to Jim West.

Friday, November 16, 2012

more post-mortem musings on post-mortem principles

http://www.dougwils.com/Politics/seven-post-mortem-principles.html

We also need Christians with a thorough-going biblical worldview writing good books, making good movies, and recording good music. As I have argued before, you can't have a naval war without ships, you can't have tank warfare without tanks, and you can't fight a culture war without a culture. And by Christian culture, incidentally, I do not mean pious schlock and I do not mean hipster poses with extra mousse in your hair to make it stick up.

I find the idea of a Christian culture a bit problematic.  White European Christendom came and went, didn't it?  Do Wilson-style postmillenialists think they have optimism enough to create a culture that will end up being anything more than another Christian reactionary ghetto?  Obviously they must think that to some degree for Wilson to write as he has written, but belief will not make that "Christian culture" something that will ever win a culture war.  Some of us took Francis Schaeffer more seriously when he indicated that Christians lost a culture war some time back in the 1930s.  Weirdly, many Christians have attempted to win a culture war that, had they understood the implications of Schaeffer's initial observation a bit more seriously, they would realize was lost before any of the culture warriors were even born.  And for those of us who grew up not being entirely white in upbringing these observation may simply have been more obvious to both observe and accept than, well, some of the more thorough-goingly white culture warriors wanting to have their thorough-going biblical worldview lead to the writing of good books and music and movies ... .

Those people might still think WALL-E was too environmentalist.  And Peter Parker's heroism in Sam Raimi's second Spider-man film is for nothing because there's no explanation spelled out for the foundation of heroism in a popcorn movie ...  If only Peter Parker had quoted Rushdoony when he was talking with Otto Octavius and his wife instead of T. S. Eliot in Spiderman 2.

post-election musings on politics and apocalyptic language

Last week was yet another election, another election billed as the most important one of our time (they probably all are which is sort of like saying that "everyone is special" which can often mean, as a certain kid in a certain movie put it, that none of them are).  I've seen laments that America is no longer the land of the free or the brave because Obama won.  Who thought Romney was going to win?  Apparently a lot of people but those people may well have been wrong. 

But each election cycle somebody manages to fret about how terrible the times are.   Before Clinton's final year played out I heard via spam that Clinton was going to suspend the Constitution, declare martial law, and appoint himself leader for life.  That, obviously, did not transpire.  When the 2000 election came along two men from what sure seemed like political dynasties steeped in some big business ran and the election became a tipping point for many.  For years after there was talk of how the election was stolen.  When 2004 came along I knew people who were sure Bush 2 was going to declare martial law, suspend the Constitution and maybe invade Iran, too.  Maybe even invade Iran within a few weeks.  That, too, never transpired, though some folks were sure those problems were around the corner in 2008.  I recall seeing actual pieces in local papers where Methodists were discussing how Bush 2 could really, truly be thought of as an antichrist. 

Then in 2008 folks told me I had to vote for McCain or else a guy as bad as the Antichrist would end up in power.  Seeing as in 2000 when I expressed more support for McCain than Bush 2 I was dubbed another college-educated flaming liberal it was a bit weird to be told by the same person that I had to vote for McCain or dire consequences would come to pass ... but political memory can be the shortest memory of all.  Whether it's people I know leaning left or right the paranoia is the same, if you don't have things going exactly the way you want at all details the land is doomed.  Libertarians aren't really any different, either.  The United States of America is no more or less doomed now than it was before.  Every nation is doomed in the end.  Electoral politics is simply the process by which you employ your best rhetoric and statistics to make the case that if someone doesn't choose your platform and you as their candidate that the doom will come swiftly and probably swiftly enough inside of your lifetime that you can pre-emptively include "I told you so" rebukes into the campaign.

I got spam declaring that Obama was going to dissolve the dollar and replace it with the Amero.  I got warnings that Obama was a Muslim/atheist/communist sleeper agent president, that the Obama administration was preparing concentration camps to send all Christians to.  None of these things transpired, though the encroachment on civil liberties seemed comparable to those that people who spammed me with these missives weren't complaining about when Bush 2 was in office.

While people may discuss how the religious landscape of the United States seems less and less overtly religious the quasi-religious fervor of politics will likely retain what it so obviously has retained, an apocalyptic idiom.  When you see people saying the United States of America died with the Reagan administration or with JFK this is nothing if not apocalyptic language.  Some were going on about how if Bush 2 was in power women would lose the right to choose (abortion).  That hasn't transpired any more than those who backed Bush 2 have seen Roe vs Wade reversed.  Changes have been made, of course, but both advocates and opponents of abortion have, at times, employed apocalyptic urgency and the language of zero-sum games during elections. 

What is so strange about the apocalyptic idiom is that it manages to permeate even the most apparently "heathen" or non-Christian or a-religious polemics.  Alan Moore invented his own religion, perhaps, some time after his apocalyptic scenarion in Watchmen, but the apocalyptic end of all life is presupposed unless you're so sold out to the idea that Veidt actually saved the world you refuse to consider how deliberately unresolved Moore left the narrative and how the breaching of the fourth wall implicates you as a reader who has discovered Rorschach's journal revealing Veidt's plan retroactively (in case you weren't paying attention to this narrative detail on the first page). James Cameron could make not one but two Terminator films with a "Judgment Day" of atomic holocaust, an apocalyptic scenario of a similar order to the doomsday scenario Veidt created to avert the global doomsday he foresaw through the Comedian's macabre joke. 

But it's not insignificant in that alternate universe that Nixon was still president.  Paranoid dystopian alternate worlds belong to everyone, left, right and center.  If free-thinkers and secularists want to find a way to discuss political outcomes and possibilities decoupling those outcomes from an apocalyptic idiom might be a good step.  After all, apocalyptic scenarios and imagery originated in religious thought, right? The world will not really end if global warming goes unaddressed.  In fact the world will go on perfectly well, the question implied in a discussion of global warming will be what life there will be and whether that life will look something like us (and whether or not it even "needs" to is another matter).

But there's no reason to suppose that anyone will give up apocalyptic language to describe how terrible the other candidate is or how amazing your pet candidate will be.  This seems no less idiotic to me now four years later as this seems idiotic now. If we lurch from point to point employing apocalyptic screeching this makes sense, I suppose, within a religious milleu but in a state such as the United States the apocalyptic idiom seems to seep into even the most secular realms.  As paranoid fears that a cowboy president will annihilate all life on the planet Bush 2 wasn't even the first, Reagan was greeted as someone who would bring forth nuclear winter and acid rain with his "morning in America" approach.  That Obama got elected does not mean America will recuperate or that Obama will sink America.  America may well have simply been sinking itself with generations of fiat currency, deficits, and global interventionist projects inspired by a combination of imperialism and anticommunism.  Everything comes to an end at some point.  If the recently departed Russel Means was right then America was simply on a trajectory to becoming one gigantic American Indian reservation.  Maybe, maybe not but whether you agree with what Means considered the trajectory of the United States of America as a culture we can at least say that he managed to articulate his ideas without framing them in obviously apocalyptic terms.

Thursday, November 15, 2012

XKCD on 50 shades of gray, a Wishbone adaptation

http://xkcd.com/1128/

As jokes go this is what a friend of mine would probably describe as a "two percenter".

Best kind of humor there is, sometimes.

Monday, November 12, 2012

Mars Hills in California 2011-2012, kerfuffles about trademarks and evictions


http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/32227-scott-hagan-speaks-out-on-mars-hill-battle

Published 10/24/2011

... The issue of the Cease and Desist Letter seemed to strike a raw nerve in the broader body of Christ. I will say more about that in a moment. But first, I want to confirm that three staff members from Mars Hill Seattle called and asked forgiveness for any stress and confusion that was caused by the letter we received from the Stokes & Lawrence law firm [perhaps referring to this Stokes & Lawrence firm]. That meant a great deal to me and the other pastors involved (Jason Yarbrough of Mars Hill Church in Fairfield and James Seiler of Mars Hill Church in Galt).

Both Chris Pledger and Dave Bruskas were clear and sincere that the proper step should have been to call us first. We accepted their apology and would like the Mars Hill Seattle congregation to know that your leaders took this step (We are assuming on behalf of pastor Mark Driscoll). They assured us they would not seek any type of legal action, even though they did apply for and were awarded a federal trademark in August of this year for both the name and the logo design. Mars Hill Seattle also posted on their blog late Saturday night a message of clarity and grace. It was greatly appreciated.

...

I was speaking Friday, Oct. 21, in Boston when I finally received a very congenial voicemail from Chris Pledger. By now the social media networks were buzzing with some knowledge about this cease and desist letter. There was zero antagonism in his voice or the message he left. That afternoon we had a conference call between myself, Chris Pledger and J0-st-n H-lc-mb. Both of them were great and shared they were very sorry for sending a legal letter first.

They communicated that their intent now was simply to remove confusion and to ask if we could alter the logo that they had been using since 1996. I shared our story, including how our design by Scott Taylor in 2005 was totally innocent, and that when our church was planted in 2005 we had no knowledge that a Mars Hill Church in Seattle existed.

I agreed to start the process of a logo redesign since they now owned the trademark. They assured me that even though the letter from Stokes & Lawrence called for a name change, that was off the table. On Saturday, I received a voicemail from Dave Bruskas reiterating the same information and again reaffirming that the letter should not have been sent as a means of first contact. ...


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/octoberweb-only/mars-hill-trademark-fight.html

Anyway, here's the Mars Hill clarification on some rumors that have been on some blogs ... which may be construed as the brand of Martian PR that attempts to replicate articles in The Economist, a publication that has proudly announced it aspires to such an impersonal and dryly cohesive literary style you can't tell who wrote what.  Note that I am not knocking The Economist, it just seems odd that Mars Hill has adopted a comparable voice for public statements about things like the trademark situation or the disciplinary cases that made headlines earlier this year.  Without much further ado ... :


http://marshill.com/2011/10/22/clarification-on-some-rumors-that-have-been-on-some-blogs/

...

Sadly, in addition to giving things away, we’ve also had things taken. We’ve had churches cut and paste our logo, take our website code and copy it completely, had ministry leaders cut and paste documents of ours, put their name on them to then post online as if it were their content, and even seen other pastors fired for preaching our sermons verbatim. We're not the only church called Mars Hill, and occasionally there arises confusion between us and other churches that share the "Mars Hill" name, particularly as we now have our churches in four states. This was the case recently when one of our members called us to find out if we had planted Mars Hill churches in the Sacramento, California area. We had not, but when we went to these churches’ websites, it was obvious to us how people could be confused. Each of these three connected churches in the Sacramento region—planted in 2006, 2007, and 2010—bore the "Mars Hill" name and their logo was substantially similar to the logo we've used since 1996. When cases like this arise in the business world, it's customary for a law office to send a notice asking the other organization to adjust their branding to differentiate it. This is commonly referred to as a cease and desist letter. On September 27, 2011, our legal counsel sent such a letter to these three Mars Hill churches requesting that they change their logo and name. In hindsight, we realize now that the way we went about raising our concerns, while acceptable in the business world, is not the way we should deal with fellow Christians. On Friday we spoke with the pastor of Mars Hill in Sacramento to apologize for the way we went about this. We had a very productive conversation and look forward to continuing that conversation in the days and weeks ahead. We made a mistake in not calling these churches prior to sending the letter. We should have picked up the phone before sending any other communication. Unfortunately, rather than hearing from the church in Sacramento, we began hearing that the matter was instead being speculated on by a blogger who did not verify any facts with us and, as a result, provided an inaccurate version of what transpired. This blog post from us is intended to alleviate any confusion. As a clarification, we have not sued any churches and have no plans to sue any churches. We have not sent any similar letters to any other "Mars Hill" churches, and we are not planning on asking any church with "Mars Hill" in their name to change their name. 

As spiffy as Mars Hill attempts to make its media content you'd think that someone over there would remember these wonderful little things called paragraph breaks. 

Chris Pledger's role in the situation was most likely that of legal counsel since Bruskas is an executive elder.  Chris Pledger was legal counsel at Mars Hill for a while.

http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Find_A_Lawyer&template=/Customsource/MemberDirectory/MemberDirectoryDetail.cfm&ContactID=199729

The statutory profile was last certified on February 18, 2012.  So it would appear Pledger was at least possibly a legal counsel to Mars Hill during the trademark situation. 

Now if you'd like to go through memory lane and look at the two logos ...

http://www.civitatedei.com/2011/10/king-of-the-hill-ctd/

Chris Pledger got mentioned here as being legal counsel of Mars Hill

http://marshill.com/governance

Who are the officers of Mars Hill Church?

For state law purposes, Mars Hill has a president, Mark Driscoll; a vice president, Dave Bruskas; and a secretary/treasurer, Sutton Turner. Mars Hill also has a chief financial officer, Kerry Dodd; and a chief legal officer, Chris Pledger.

The governance statement, whenever it was published, was already old news by May 2012.

http://twitter.com/ChrisPledger/status/206934500599537664
Chris Pledger‏@ChrisPledger

Last church service @MarsHill. Very thankful for the ministry and mission of Mars Hill and the privilege to
have been part of it.
7:26 PM - 27 May 2012 via HootSuite ·

Where did Chris Pledger end up?

http://vintage21.com/person/chris-pledger/
Posted on June 28, 2012
Chris Pledger | Executive Director

Chris Pledger serves as Executive Director of Vintage21 Church. Prior to joining Vintage21, he served as Director of Strategy and General Counsel of Mars Hill Church (Seattle). Chris oversees Vintage21′s central operations and business functions

Then there's this private, password-guarded post that has "Chris Pledger" and a reference to a Mars Hill at a wordpress site. Whether it's the same Chris Pledger or the same Mars Hill is moot but mentioned for the possibly curious reader. 

Now the tweet from May 2012 by Pledger was the same weekend this announcement came down the pike from Mark Driscoll and Nick Bogardus about Mars Hill Orange County.

http://marshill.com/2012/05/26/update-on-mars-hill-orange-countys-building

http://www.christianpost.com/news/mars-hill-orange-county-church-pressured-to-move-from-rock-concert-hall-76066/
from June 5, 2012

"Santa Ana embraces religious institutions of all types. In fact, about two-thirds of our zoning districts allow churches," the city planning director said. "The city staff has gone above and beyond to help Mars Hill in finding locations, including contacting a perspective landlord on Mars Hill's behalf."

Pastor Nick Bogardus, who leads Mars Hill OC, told CP that he has a long, fond history with the city and wants to comply with its regulations even though he may not understand them.

Still, he says the last seven months have been frustrating. The city made it clear from the outset that the church could not stay long term, Bogardus said.

So the city made it clear from the outset that the church could not stay long term, according to Nick Bogardus.  This would seem to have made the eviction both explicable and inevitable. Whatever Driscoll said about not understanding what the reasons for the eviction are moot if Bogardus knew from the outset that the church could not stay at The Observatory for long.  If Bogardus knew this in advance (and what he is credited as saying to The Christian Post sure seems to indicate this) why would the core planting Mars Hill Orange County have chosen a building where they knew at the outset that an eviction was not only possibly but even potentially likely?

How far back was "from the outset"?  Tough to say. Bogardus apparently met with Driscoll in May 2011. (That link died with the entire campus blog network/archive system going down in early 2012--possibly in the wake of coverage of Andrew, though it can't be certain), the dead link is linked to here (assuming this link still works). Whether or not the Observatory had been selected by May 2011 isn't clear (though it seems it may not have been chosen yet. Here are some photos by Jeremy Tso posted at his site on May 30, 2011. The Orange County campus launched in January 2012.   How far back "from the outset" actually went may be moot since the city had made it clear, Bogardus said, that the launch site of Mars Hill Orange County could not be a long-term home. 

For whatever reasons Bogardus and company (or whoever made the decision to pick The Observatory) chose that venue after the city had made it clear what zoning issues were going to be issues.  Given what Bogardus told The Christian Post and given what the city officials made clear about the nature of the eviction it seems probably that was not a question of whether or not Mars Hill planting leaders in Orange County knew about the zoning restrictions but why they persisted in planting at The Observatory even after the city had made clear what was and wasn't approved.  Did leaders at Mars Hill think the city was just going to let them spend months meeting in a place they'd been told at the outset wasn't zoned for church use? 

Now below is a link to a letter Kathleen Firstenberg published at her blog from Kyle Firstenberg (her husband) who had served as executive elder at Mars Hill Orange County. The entry was dated July 10, 2012. Kyle Firstenberg was the executive elder at Mars Hill Orange County at that time, at least up until, apparently, the same weekend in late May 2012. 

http://kfbergs.blogspot.com/2012/07/kyles-update.html

To our friends and family,


A little over twelve years ago, Kathleen and I first walked into Mars Hill Church at the Paradox theater. It was dark, smelled like smoky indy rockers and the music was horrendous. Pastor Mark came out and preached the Gospel of Jesus like I had never heard before. At that moment, we decided this was our church.

As the years went on, we were married by Pastor Mark and found ourselves volunteering in many different roles in the church. We have seen Jesus bless this church and work by seeing thousands of people saved and baptized and multiple locations launched. Kathleen and I have been blessed beyond words through the teaching of Pastor Mark and the investment of Godly men and women in this church. We are eternally thankful for the real relationships, life long friendships and for the people of this church being a family to us.

I have served in many roles in the church and held many titles, but ultimately my heart and desire has always been to love, disciple and shepherd the people Jesus has put in my care. I had the honor of working with Pastor Bubba in helping plant Mars Hill West Seattle. In that time Jesus used Pastor Bubba in amazing ways to shape my philosophy of ministry and leadership. Kathleen and I have a great love for the people of West Seattle and for dear friendships made there.

Pastor Bubba and I then had the opportunity to be sent to Ballard to serve there and build some incredible friendships in my time there as well. A couple of years later, when asked to move back to West Seattle in a time of need, it was our joy to rejoin that church and serve for another year there before being sent to help launch the Orange County church.

The big move to Orange County was just a little over a year ago. This move was one where it was a leap of faith. We love West Seattle and had a joy of planting roots there and serving the people we lived among. But God had other plans. He put the conviction in both Kathleen and I that we were to be a part of this work headed to Orange County. So we moved and made some incredible friends yet again. Kathleen and I loved being a part of the Orange County Church and were just getting settled when Jesus started moving again; this time in an unexpected way. The role that I love and feel God’s gifting in being an Executive Pastor was beginning to change in Mars Hill.

Six years ago when Jesus was calling me out of Law Enforcement as a Police Officer, He made it clear to me that I was to work in ministry at Mars Hill Church. This was a calling by God and not a job opportunity. For the last six years, I prayed that if the day ever came that I should leave my role at Mars Hill, that Jesus would be kind enough to make it as clear as He did the day He called me. That day came. The role that I loved and served in had changed and I was no longer the best man for the job. For years I have asked for the courage to step aside and get out of the way if the I am ever not the right man for the job.

Around forty five days ago, I had a frank conversation with Pastor Nick and told him that I no longer felt that I was the best man for the job of Executive Pastor at Mars Hill Church and that with our current budget deficit, the Orange County location could no longer afford to keep me on staff. As a result, I was given thirty days to hand off my responsibilities and be laid off. [emphasis added] It was my intention to find employment locally and continue to serve as a non-staff elder at OC, but Jesus had other plans.

In an effort to reduce our expenses, we requested to break our two year lease with our property management company. They told us that they would search for replacement tenants and let us know. Jesus often works quickly and because I really love to have a plan has been teaching me to trust in Him. Almost three weeks had passed and I followed up with the property management company to get a status update on our lease and was told that they had rented our apartment and that we needed to move out and turn in our keys in three days. Praise Jesus that He released us from that lease and He certainly did it in His timing.

We are grateful for all the people who helped us pack up our house and move it into storage. The last couple of weeks have been very hard as we are seeking out Jesus’ plan for us. After much prayer and many conversations with trusted friends and elders, we felt Jesus leading us to Las Vegas, of all places. We went there trusting that Jesus would continue to guide us and He has. In one week, we have made good friends with a Lead Pastor of a local A29 church and have felt God calling us to make a home here.

Kathleen and I continue to mourn the change of Mars Hill no longer being our home, but we see Jesus’ hand in all of this and know that we must walk in obedience to where He leads. In doing so, we are very excited for how we might serve in this new church and continue to contribute to the forward work of the Gospel of Jesus and the hope we have in Him. With this change, and after prayerful consideration and counsel, we’ve decided that it is the best decision for me at this time to transition out of the role of eldership as well as membership at Mars Hill Church in Orange County.

I am so thankful for the years of investment from this church to me, and how Jesus has sanctified me through this work. I would not give up the multiple challenges, changes and locations that I had the privilege to serve at. I am so thankful for how Jesus used Mars Hill to shape me as a Disciple, Husband, Father and Pastor. 

Kathleen and I love this church and are sad to leave, but it is with hope and joy that we will still serve in Jesus’ Church and will glorify Jesus with the gifts He has given us and the tools He has equipped us with through His work at Mars Hill Church.

Love,

The Firstenberg family

"Around 45 days ago" from July 10, 2012 lands us somewhere in the weekend of May 26-27, 2012, doesn't it?  The weekend in late May during which Mars Hill former legal counsel Chris Pledger tweeted about his last Sunday at Mars Hill was, apparently, the same time during which now former Executive Pastor of Mars Hill Orange County Kyle Firstenberg let Pastor Nick Bogardus know that he no longer felt able to serve as Executive Pastor at Mars Hill Orange County and that with the then-current deficit the church would no longer be able to afford to keep him (Firstenberg) on staff.   It was also the same weekend Driscoll announced that Mars Hill Orange County had been served an eviction notice and spoke as though it were mysterious.  Maybe to someone who was simply not paying attention to what Bogardus said was made clear from the outset. 

As to references to a deficit at Mars Hill Orange County mentioned in Firstenberg's letter, this sermon from June 10, 2012 may include at least some information that could shed light on deficits at the Mars Hill sites:

http://marshill.com/media/the-seven/missional-in-philadelphia-didnt-give-up-or-give-in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhb3erNZbX0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Old posts referring to some of what was made available about the deficits are in the links below:

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/06/mars-hill-church-update-its-just-that.html
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/07/martian-budgets-past-present-and-future.html

Late May saw a few shake-ups happen.  Chris Pledger stopped being at Mars Hill, it seems, and stopped being legal counsel. Mars Hill Orange County, not even half a year from its launch, got served an eviction notice and around the same time Firstenberg, the executive elder at Mars Hill Orange County, stepped down citing deficits at the campus.  A new church plant could be expected to run some deficits but according to Driscoll's church updates on the finances all the campuses were running deficits.  In fact some of the oldest campuses of Mars Hill were running the highest deficits per capita.  Mars Hill Orange County's debt was a bit on the lower side but an eviction a mere five months in is not a walk in the park.  Then again, if Mars Hill leaders had actually picked a site zoned for church use to begin with ... .

POSTSCRIPT:  Research on MH Orange County is still pending.  The time MH transitioned into The Observatory is a bit fuzzy.  Driscoll is shown preaching at what looks like a theater venue circa November 2011 but whether that's the Observatory is not for Wenatchee The Hatchet to be certain about.  Contributions are welcome for this and other posts in the real estate series.

Saturday, November 10, 2012

Daniel Corr plays at the Frye Art Museum Nov 17

http://fryemuseum.org/event/4780/
Saturday, November 17, 2012
2 pm
Seattle native Daniel Corr is active as a performing classical guitarist across North America. Recent appearances include performances of guitar concertos by Giuliani with the American Classical Orchestra, Villa-Lobos at Benaroya Hall with the Seattle Creative Orchestra, and Rodrigo with the Auburn (WA) Symphony. He has been a featured solo recitalist at universities including Villanova, University of Washington, University of Kentucky, Montana State University at Bozeman, and at the Beijing Central Conservatory as a guest of Professor Chen Zhi. Classical guitar society recitals have included the Seattle, Northwest, and Upstate New York Societies. Featured festival recitals include the Oneonta and Northwest Guitar Festivals. A passionate chamber musician, Daniel is frequently seen in concert as a member of the Tricordes ensemble. Other chamber music collaborators have included such esteemed musicians as Myron Lutzke, Linda Quan, Rie Schmidt, Paul Taub, and Antoine Tamestit. Emmy-winning director Karyl Evans featured Corr in a television project for the New Haven Symphony. His recent recording with the Auburn Symphony Orchestra is "Concierto de Aranjuez.” Corr serves as a Lecturer of Music and Artistic Director of the Gateway International Guitar Series at Gateway Community College in New Haven, CT.

The Seattle Classic Guitar Society has a Free at the Frye series each year.  For those of us who have had a few years of being, as Mr. Yotsuya used to put it in a certain comic book, temporarily short of funds, this series is a boon for folks who want to hear classical guitar music but may not be situated to afford the normal ticket scene (such as tonight's recital by Michael Partington over at Benaroya, which I'm sure will be wonderful but that I can't afford to get to. 

This year's Free at the Frye series includes not just Corr (who I haven't had a chance to hear play yet) but also Atanas Ourkouzounov.  Longtime readers may remember that I've blogged a bit about Atanas. :-) 

I really do want to tackle a Chamber Music Week 3 at some point but offline exigencies being what they are a few posts about chamber music for guitar may have to wait. 

Friday, November 09, 2012

partisan campaigning and vitriol in politics and church politics

Or I could just call this blog post "Why American Christian bloggers need Canadians" :-)

http://kinnon.tv/2012/11/zero-sum-games-the-church.html#comments

I would state, rather categorically, that if there is a state religion in the U.S., that religion would be organized sport. The level of angst that exists for the success or failure of one’s team is more than a little disconcerting - especially when the fan is a Christian, or a “Christian leader.”

...

At it’s very worst, this American obsession with winning teams is exemplified by what was allowed to happen under Joe Paterno’s leadership at Penn State. Winning at any cost — even if that cost was children sacrificed on the altar of pedophilia. UPDATE 3: View this graphic. And weep.

... One of the manifestations of this is the prevalence of trash talking that began in sports but has become a very noticeable part of social interaction. It’s roots may be in the rather innocent, “Hey batter, batter” of baseball but the language is far stronger today — and much more destructive

http://www.mereorthodoxy.com/controversy-and-interpretation-biblical-womanhood/

... That may be sarcasm, and I might have missed it. I was born in Canada, which means I don’t do sarcasm. But it sure seems like she set out on her reading with her conclusions predetermined, which isn’t exactly modeling the sort of hermeneutical sympathy that we might admire. ...

I’m no Roman history expert, but I take it that it was their love of entertainment that led them to the Coliseum. It’s a bloodthirsty idol, entertainment, for it knows no boundaries nor respects no persons. Over the past two years, Christians have engaged in a variety of controversies—which they have been doing for a long time, but which seem to be coming and going with a greater rapidity while being discussed at a significantly more shallow level. I think of Rob Bell’s book, Jesus>Religion, Mark Driscoll’s book, the Wilson dustup, and now this conflaguration. And there are, I think, others I am forgetting.

In each, the form of arguments have rarely been commendable and the level of discourse ennobling. We have increasingly, it seems to me, been taken by these controversies and fought for pageviews in the midst of them. And that has meant mostly fighting each other, clashing verbal swords and letting the digital blood flow in the streets. I know well that there is a time to disagree and to draw lines. And I also know that when the controversy is upon us, the drumbeats of war always beat the loudest, and it is usually in such moments that we should speak of peace. Perhaps we would all do well to wield our intellectual swords with a good deal more care.

Been thinking all week of things to say in addition to these observations but I've found it hard to put those thoughts into actual words I like. 

spiritual abuse and emotional abuse--cycles of provocation and escalation

A properly Christian blog at some point simply must include a blog post that begins with a dictionary definition of a word, preferably from Merriam-Webster, in which a word gets defined and then becomes the basis for a rambling blog post. If possible the post should attempt to deal with a simultaneously vague and possibly tendentious idea that is full of rhetorical questions. 

Since it would be a terrible thing to make a mere observation and not also  provide an example in which one shows rather than tells, let's proceed.  Ahem ...

"abuse"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abuse

1:  a corrupt practice or custom
2:  improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse abuse
>
3 obsolete: a deceitful act : deception
4: language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
5: physical maltreatment


I've seen a few blogs pop up about spiritual abuse in the last few years. 

I confess to actually being ambivalent about them.  There are particular blogs I'm not the least bit ambivalent about which may be identified by dint of prodigious citation. I'm not discussing that sort of blog today.

Back to ambivalence, on the one hand genuinely destructive words and actions percolate and then explode in religious settings (as they do in other settings, obviously).  It is important that when remorseless harm or ill-will abounds (or even remorseful harm is bad enough) that it can get addressed. 

On the other hand I have wondered about the usefulness of a term like "spiritual abuse" for reasons I may have to explain at some length and with possibly dozens of caveats. 

The very definition of "spiritual abuse" may not be entirely clearcut and I say this not because I don't think it exists but because I have unbelieving friends; think about how and why we use certain words and what we mean by them; and think about how the nomenclature of spiritual abuse gets used.  Sometimes the term seems readily grasped by people who, depending on how people define abuse, get labeled as having a "victim mentality".  This often gets brought up by those who prefer that criticism or allegations of abuse not be endlessly discussed. 

This can lead to a variety of lazy shortcuts.  One of the lazier ones is to imagine that if so-and-so alleges that person X has been abusive and a person wants to differ, then that person can rhetorically or seriously ask so-and-so, "Did somebody hurt you?"  The assumption would be that if I speak up about things I consider damaging, deceptive, or harmful then you would be asking who hurt me because the only way to plausibly imagine that I would speak up about something is because I've got to have some personal hurt motivating my actions.  It may be a person is more likely to write about things they find upsetting if those things happened to them but it's not a given.

Another lazy shortcut in attempting to deploy "victim mentality" to dismiss some criticism is to define the victim mentality as a narrative a critic defines himself or herself by.  This actually does occur but the burden of proof doesn't lift from the person who alleges that the person making allegations must be operating from a victim mentality.  This might be a point at which a pious Christian might propose that "We're all sinners and none of us is perfect."  This is rarely intended as an affirmative defense of the rightness of the person who is alleged to have said or done wrong as often as it is an attempt to so level the moral playing field no one can be considered to speak from "higher ground" than the person who is coming under some criticism.  Everyone has a three-pound fallen brain and is a hypocrite when it's time to make sure nobody's critical comments get taken seriously.

What often happens at this point is to trade on various levels of infraction.  What people are apt to do is to presume that any harm done by someone they defend was unintentional while the harm caused by those who are on the opposite point meant every word and deed.  If the unconvincing defense from the 20th century in a post-World War II era was "I was only following orders" in the 20th century with an information age such as we've hardly seen before, the defense of unintended consequences or sincerity may be the cheapest defense.  Whatever the subject we are in a position to know better now than at almost any era previous to ours. 

But knowledge (and lack thereof) has not stopped being the crux of a lot of disputes.  As often as an allegation may come up, legitimate or otherwise someone will step in and say "we're not hearing the whole story" or "there are two sides to every story".  There's a proverb that has been mishandled by a few people toward this end.  Instead of taking this rather pedantic and useless line of argument a person would be better off pointing out that the heart is deceitful above all things and hard to understand.  This observation means that you and I are equally apt to deceive ourselves both about the rightness of our actions and the purity of our motives.  If we take this warning seriously we will be cautiouis first about our own actions and purity of motives and then wonder about others.  In blog-land the reverse is almost invariably more likely to be true. 

If someone wants to make a serious case against victims taking a bombastic and self-pitying approach to a topic or to cast doubt on the credibility of a "critic" then psychological research might be in order.  For instance,  while victims and their sympathizers may bristle at this psychological research and studies indicate that neither perpetrators nor victims will provide unbiased accounts.  As Roy Baumeister noted so thoroughly in his book on cruelty most perpetrators of evil actually see themselves as persecuted victims who used the best options at their disposal.  When people consider themselves victims they are apt to minimize their culpability for things but, more importantly, cast the other as evil in some fashion.  Contrary to the myth of pure evil about domestic violence, Baumeister said the forensic and psychological studies at hand suggest that domestic violence is often the result of mutually escalated psychological and physical aggression in up to half of the cases. 

The thing is that both perpetrators and victims are apt to cast each other as acting irrationally and against both good judgment and morals.  The trouble here with invoking a "victim mentality" to dismiss criticism is not that the criticism here of criticism has no merit but because it can so often be a double-edged sword.  Both the perpetrator and the victim will have an emotional incentive to cast themselves as the real victims in an event in which abuse is alleged.  Baumeister used the example of an abusive husband who beats his wife and convinces himself he had to do this in order to ensure his wife really respected him and his role as the man of the house.  In the abusive husband's mind he is actually the victim of what he would consider verbal or emotional abuse and he's found a way to use physical abuse to, in his mind, level the playing field.  How he has leveled the playing field, however,is physical abuse. 

Now for an atheist or an agnostic the very notion of "spiritual abuse" is something Christian bloggers ought to seriously consider, or even reconsider.  Does "spiritual abuse" even exist in a way that would make sense fot the unbeliever's mind?  Depending on which unbeliever you talk to the very notion of the religious mindset is fundamentally abusive by its nature and in its essence.  But a skeptic, a rationalist, an agnostic, an atheist will not concede that there is a "spirit" in the "spiritual abuse". 

Emotional abuse, by contrast, could be very easily granted and what Christian bloggers would call "spiritual abuse" can be considered emotional abuse that plays out at an interpersonal, even social level.  Yes, the term "cult" would also be a shoe that fits but not every shoe that fits is necessarily the same kind of shoe.  There are dress shoes for the office and tennis shoes for track and field and so on. Spiritual abuse may be emotional abuse that is played out with religious rationalizations.  It could be that from a therapeutic/counseling perspective spiritual abuse can be understood as a subset or specialization in emotional abuse. 

The tricky thing about emotional abuse is establishing that it has happened because physical forms of abuse leave marks that can be medically examined.  Emotional/relational abuse is not so easily discerned or diagnosed.  If you strike someone the physical effects can at least potentially be measured and studied but emotional abuse is harder to quantify either in terms of its nature or the extent of its damage.  For an unbeliever what Christians would call "spiritual abuse" is just the standard rank-and-file stupidity that any believers of any religion willing let others foist upon them by definition.  But let's propose for the time being that not all religious ideas and customs must by definition be abusive. 

Given how prevalent it is for an abuser to see himself or herself as actually the victim who must operate in self-defense in ways that someone else considers abusive, it isn't possible for a mere blogger to try to define emotional abuse.  It doesn't seem the professionals are entirely agreed on the matter and for earlier generations the very idea of emotional abuse, at least compared to physical abuse, may not only seem harder to quantify but may seem more than slightly dubious. 

Throwing this idea out for consideration, perhaps some folks need to consider that not all forms of abuse are necessarily physical.  A person can be in an abusive relationship without any physical harm being inflicted.  On the other hand, for those who very readily accept the idea of emotional abuse or spiritual abuse keep in mind that not all generations grew up hearing terms like emotional abuse.  It may not be of particularly old vintage even in the social sciences and there may not be a clear, agreed-upon definition as to what emotional abuse is.

I'm going on a limb to suggest that when people talk about emotional abuse or spiritual abuse in terms of cultures that the social element may have more impact for extraverts than introverts.  If a person is emotionally expressive and extraverted or introverted with a few deep associations then when those associations get sundered the emotional effect is catastrophic--yet the physical effects may be minimal. 

To get back to dictionary definitions, definition 4 defines abuse as language that condemns or villifies, usually unjustly.  Let's just play with "usually" and note that abuse may not seem unjustified in the mind of someone who uses abusive language.  They may think it's the fairest thing in the world to mock, belittle, and tear into whomever it was that the abuser is sure "had it coming". After all, this person didn't beat up anyone who didn't deserve it.  This person didn't make fun of anyone who didn't have it coming.  It is for an abuser a trivial thing to abuse ...  for the victim what Roy Baumeister called the "magnitude gap" between an abuser's view of an action and the victim's view of the action is collosal.  If we fail to appreciate that for an abuser the abuse is, however unpleasant, not all that bad and potentially even necessary then we will fail to grasp that abusers are human.  We "know" they are human, of course, but it's what we grant in the abstract not in the moment when our blood is boiling and we want them to die. 

But as I've already noted what often turns out to be the case is that abuse is fueled by a cycle of mutual aggression and provocation.  To use a useful archetypal example of a domestic conflict one person feels disrespected and belittled by the other.  The first person feels as though his/her partner is questioning his/her competence, status, intelligence, empathy or some other element.  The status of the person is found wanting in some fashion and in a setting where conflict may occur.  The second person feels let down, bitterly let down, perhaps stuck in a relationship where things aren't very good and speaks in a way that he/she considers a legitimate expression of frustration but that the first person takes as demeaning or distrusting in some way.  Words may get exchanged, things may escalate and at some point words transform into a physical, visceral reaction.  Or maybe not, maybe the words escalate to a point where as a sarcastic cartoon puts it, a husband and wife may be in an argument in which the wife says "Let's not go any further or we may say things we actually mean." 

I've seen people talk about abuse a bit on blogs I've frequented and I'm still ambivalent, as I said at the start.  There are people genuinely advocating on behalf of the abuse and genuinely expressing legitimate outrage at abuse.  There may be those for whom outrage about abuse may be a stance taken up on grounds other than that of bein gsubjected to direct abuse.  More disturbing, perhaps, is the possibility that even among those who speak up against abuse there are actually abusive ways of thinking, feeling and speaking dormant, or open, within them.  There is a fine and precarious line in satire, for instance, between making fun of the things you're making fun of and actually embodying those flaws yourself.  The more clever a satire is the more readily it may be confused for the real thing ... but at that point you want to be less and not more convincing if you value your own heart, at least that's how I see it.  An even more disturbing possibility is that you are able to effectively mimic the mockery and abuse of others it could be because those things are actually a part of who you are, not just the person you're objecting to. 

Now I have blogged a polemical point or two in my time here at Wenatchee The Hatchet and here I want to articulate a premise or principle I hope will be redundant for long-time readers and may be relevant to new ones.  I employ sarcasm and sometimes employ harsh ways of writing.  That is not, I think, the norm.  When I write a polemic I try hard to make a point of attacking ideas and methods of thinking rather than people.  Over time a person who employes specious reasoning, dishonest argumetns, or tells lies will at length reveal himself or herself to be less than trustworthy or perhaps trustworthy but of less than sterling character.  But this will be the man or woman or child revealing one's own character.  To speak in advance of that life testifying for itself risks judging someone too hastily and saying something dismissive or cruel or caustic or inaccurate about them.  In a word, an abusive word.  It is entirely possible to denounce abusive talk or judgmentalism in a way that itself displays all the same moral failures.  If you are belittle, mock or dismiss others then how are we not dehumanizing them in the way that abusers so often do?  The terrible paradox of emotional abuse, however we might define it, is that it may be a gift that keeps on giving and that it may itself be the preferred defense against what was considered abusive to begin with.  As can so often be the case the abuser sees himself or herself as the actual victim, a victim who was acting and speaking in self-defense and is not able to see himself or herself the way the subject does. 

We've rambled enough on that topic at this point.

Thursday, November 08, 2012

Doug Wilson almost channels Eric Cartman [update 2025 with non-defunct link variant of DW content]

http://oldlife.org/2012/11/election-analysis/

Two pieces caught my eye. The first is Doug Wilson’s (thanks to the always Moscovite Baylys):

They link to here

http://www.dougwils.com/Politics/seven-post-mortem-principles.html

Hart quotes a few parts, I'll quote more selectively.

Postmillennial optimism does not mean the world gets better without repentance. It means that the gospel is powerful to save, and when the gospel is preached rightly it comes in the form of "repent and believe." Repent of what? Repent of our sins. Believe what? Believe in Jesus Christ, crucified and risen.

Wilson moves along ...

3. No principled vote cast yesterday, offered in faith before the Lord, was a wasted vote. Those who went to the polls with true faith in Christ and a sincere commitment to do what His Word required of them offered up a vote that was part of their living sacrifice (Rom. 12:1-2). And if He received it, so should we -- even if the vote cast differed from our own.

Wilson can't help but mention what votes are unprincipled and so ...

4. Every unprincipled vote, offerred to the bitch goddess of the state on the left, or the bitch goddess of pragmatism on the soft right, or the bitch goddess of ideology on the libertarian right, was simply thrown away. Professing Christians who voted for Obama were either confusedly or rebelliously heaping up judgment for all of us. Christians on the right who voted for Romney for no other reason than that he was "electable" found out that he was not as electable as all that. And Christians who voted for absolute ideological purity (which is, remember, a form of impurity) found out that that kind of purity wasn't in the running.

If Wilson used "bitch goddess" just a few more times I'd start to think he was singing about Kyle's mom. 

Don't worry Mr. Wilson, you're pretty obviously irrepressible already. :)

[UPDATE 4-29-2025]
The old link has been defunct but the content is still available via ... 


What it has to do with the category of books is anybody's guess but that's where to find the seven post mortem principles where Doug Wilson talked about the bitch goddesses

Monday, November 05, 2012

and on the topic of blogging comrades ...

Andrew, yeah, Andrew over at City of God.

Blog about Baumeister already.   This thing where I blog about Batman cartoons and let you know about it is starting to feel one-sided. ;-)

Dan, good to see you're back contributing.  I'm a little busier than usual for the first time in a while and that's good for me. 

You guys are blogging stuff I'm finding interesting but I'm not necessarily ideally situated to join the frays yet.

Bill Kinnon is back with Zero Sum Games in the Church

http://kinnon.tv/2012/11/zero-sum-games-the-church.html

Just a link will suffice for now.

Matthew Lee Anderson reviews Rachel Held Evans' book and reviews reviews, sorta

http://www.mereorthodoxy.com/controversy-and-interpretation-biblical-womanhood/#more-123716

I've sarcastically and seriously interacted with a variety of ideas Matthew Lee Anderson has presented over the years, sarcastically on politics and very seriously, even earnestly with his review of a certain book.  Anderson weighs in at some length for him (though great length for him might be average length for me on a roll).  I'm linking to his post because he doesn't just review Evans' book but points out that Evans, though he may differ with her on a few important points, has raised a number of issues that evangelicals and complementarians have dropped the ball on.

Here's a brief excerpt:

She didn’t set out on her journey attempting to find out what her intellectual foes thought, or why they thought it. She set out from the conclusion that they were wrong and then read their texts accordingly. I mean, after she notes that Proverbs 31 is recorded by King Lemuel “as an oracle his mother taught him,” she comments that this “totally upset my plan to cast the Proverbs 31 woman as an unrealistic archetype of the misogynistic imagination.” That may be sarcasm, and I might have missed it. I was born in Canada, which means I don’t do sarcasm. But it sure seems like she set out on her reading with her conclusions predetermined, which isn’t exactly modeling the sort of hermeneutical sympathy that we might admire.

There's a lot I could write about this that has nothing to do with Evans as such and a lot to do with how Christian bloggers and speakers use sarcasm as a crutch but I will probably save that for some other time. 

Here's one for Headless Unicorn Guy

Batman may have been busy in Gotham this year but he's not too busy to hang with his friends in the Justice League.

For nerds with some Martian background that couldn't be less subtle, could it?

Elliott Carter has died

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/arts/music/elliott-carter-avant-garde-composer-dies-at-103.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1352174458-cmbk5IHM6mpZ7XkxDch0iQ

I confess he has not been a favorite of mine over the years but his passing is worth noting here.  It's not quite my kind of modern-writing but I'll gladly take some of his stuff over pretty much anything by Glass.

Sunday, November 04, 2012

Mark Driscoll: It's possible to be a really proud, ruthless, horrible man who's got a decent marriage.


http://marshill.com/media/esther/jesus-is-a-better-servant#transcript
Jesus is a better servant
October 28, 2012
Mark Driscoll

...
Chapter 6, verse 12. “But Haman hurried to his house.” He ran home, “Mourning with his head covered.” This is public mourning. “And Haman told his wife Zeresh and all his friends everything that had happened to him.”

Here’s what’s weird: he’s got a better marriage than King Xerxes. Esther previously said that she hadn’t even seen her husband in thirty days, and they live in the same palace. It’s possible to be a really proud, ruthless, horrible man who’s got a decent marriage. He goes and talks to his wife, the one thing that the king doesn’t do.

Do you see where, perhaps, even in his own heart, he’d say, “Well, I’m not a ruthless, horrible man. I’m a good family man. You know? I’m good to my wife. I’m good to my friends”? This is how proud people justify their inconsistency. He seems to have a decent marriage and he does have some friends, and he’s going to be a mass murderer. So is the human heart.


No disagreement there.

Practical Theology for Women: The Value of Quiet Husbands

http://www.theologyforwomen.org/2012/11/the-value-of-quiet-husbands.html

The whole post is a worthy read.  I can't help but notice that Wendy mentioned hearing someone gossip that she and her husband left a church because her husband had lost control of his wife.  Now we could speculate as to which church that was but will not do so.  :)

Brainstorming in teams is one of the lamest, most idiotic things this blogger has ever had to endure.

Saturday, November 03, 2012

Mark Driscoll has shifted transportation metaphors

http://theresurgence.com/2012/10/22/do-you-trust-your-pilot

It looks like the bus/car driving analogy reached the end of its shelf-life.  Now that people have been thrown off the bus and under the bus and that analogy has been made available to the public it was good for an inside joke ("They're on a bus") and the driver analogy was fine for God's Work, Our Witness that went along with the previous annual report and a request for more money. 

But times change and so do transportation metaphors (except for who's steering).  Now the topic is whether or not you trust your pilot.  The analogy is unfortunate because Driscoll's knowledge of flight seems mere window-dressing for another defense of decisions a "pilot" may make that ruffle the feathers of people who are presumed to not have the "data" the people in the cockpit have.

That "data" matters more in very bad weather conditions and at night.  For those who don't remember the death of a certain Kennedy that death was discussed by pilots who noted that the dead Kennedy decided to take a flight at night when he was not yet licensed or registered for instrument-only flight.  Now those who know more about this are welcome to make corrections if the following analogy breaks down.  Pilots who have more data would get that data from the instruments and from a control tower guiding them in particular situations.  The thing is that when a plane is in a difficult situation almost anyone with half a brain will have 1) noticed something already or 2) that something was starting to go wrong would be signalled by the instruments (if they're working properly). 

But how well-calibrated are the instruments for the plane?  You can have a great pilot but if the plane has inherent problems in design or mechanics then the pilot must compensate for some fundamental design weaknesses in the plane that would kill a less experienced pilot.  Take the famous Sopwith Camel, with a nasty torque rate that made certain kinds of turns deadly for the pilot and other kinds of turns deadly for adversaries in combat.  Some planes were dreams to fly so long as you didn't have to land the thing with that inverted gull wing.  More people died trying to land the Corsair than died in combat. 

If Driscoll wants to push the pilot analogy, okay.  This invites a set of necessary questions about the quality of the plane itself, how well calibrated its instruments are, whether the propulsion has any inherent dangers that an experienced pilot would need to know about that make left-hand turns dangerous and right-hand turns very tight.  Is the powerplant a radial engine, perhaps?  Or a piston-engine?  Does the plane have fule injection? 

Then there are questions about the pilot.  What flight school did the pilot train at?  Who decided to license the pilot?  Is the pilot registered for instrument-only flight at night or only for flying during the day?  Is the pilot licensed to fly fixed wing aircraft or helicopters?  Did the pilot perform an adequate pre-flight check-up on where simple things like the switch for the auxilliary fuel tank was placed on the plane?  Did either fuel tank have adequate fuel? Not checking for things as simple as that before take-off can lead to catrastrophe and death. 

Driscoll explains that sometimes an abrupt turn has to be made.  What constitutes an abrupt turn?  A change of course?  Well in that case an abrupt change of course could be something like a deal for what is now Mars Hill Downtown nearly not going through in 2011 because someone didn't want to sell the real estate or give up influence over it that then went through in 2012 by way of a long-term lease.  What changed?  Not the disposition of the owner of the property but of those people inside Mars Hill who came to a different perspective.  The executive elders in 2011 seemed to be Mark Driscoll, Dave Bruskas and Jamie Munson.  The executive elders in 2012 were Mark Driscoll, Dave Bruskas and Sutton Turner.  If that was all the difference it took for executive elders to come to a different conclusion about what terms would be acceptable in gaining new real estate perhaps, just perhaps, some of the "data" are available to people who aren't even on the plane.  After all, there are things that can be observed by the flight control tower and people on the ground that not even the pilot can see from within the cockpit. 

Let's take the five points in reverse order.

5. Trust the pilots
Assume that they have way more data and training than you. Assume they see stuff out of their window you don’t see out of yours. Assume they did the right thing, even if you are wearing your drink, your luggage came flying out of the overhead bin, and you need to buy new underwear to replace the ones you were wearing. Just maybe the pilots saved your life and spared you from a less disruptive turn that would have ended in a fiery crash you never saw coming.

It all comes down to trust. If you don’t trust your pilots, then you will jump, panic, storm, or trash.
Who is most likely to trust the pilots? Frequent fliers, those who have been on board long enough to have survived hard banked turns before. And former pilots who have themselves sat in the cockpit of an organization and had to make the same kind of tough decisions.

Who is least likely to trust the pilots? First-time fliers, those who are new to leadership and/or new to the organization and subsequently lack the experience to simply buckle up and ride it out. Also fans of flying who have studied flight and/or visited the cockpit to peer over the pilots' shoulder enought to maintain an illusion that they know how to fly and could do a better job themselves, even though they have no hours in the pilots' chair.

This is where we would be led by the nose.   The thing is that assuming the pilots have more data and training is something that happens in air travel because pilots get tested, pilots get licensed, pilots take instruction from control towers, and pilots advise passengers mid-flight when things go wrong and what those changes entail for decisions.  Driscoll's analogy breaks down at precisely the point where airline pilots responsibly inform passengers of what is going on and how it will effect the flight.  A pilot who refuses to explain what's going on when a plane hits turbulence

Fans of flying who have studied flight are probably more likely to trust pilots because they understand that a certain amount of turbulence will buckle the wings and that wing-buckling is what you want to happen.  Better that the plane buffets and moves than that the wings sheer off and you've got no lifting area.  As the study of flight goes Driscoll hasn't even reached the level of a dilletante.  He probably hasn't even given a thought to concepts like aspect ratios or lift/drag coefficients or what the significance of a thrust-to-weight ratio would indicate for aircraft in difficult situations.  The thing about "book learning" that Driscoll wants to dismiss with respect to flight is that it's not necessarily any more valid for pastoring than for flight. 

Years ago someone I know participated in a few flight simulator games.  As sometimes happens gamers discuss topics of history and in flight simulator settings that deal with war an occasional debate pops up about the relevance of dicta Boelke (go look it up as this segment presupposes knowledge of dicta Boelke).  The person I know has never flown planes but participated in flight sim communities a while and got in a debate with someone about whether dicta Boelke still applied.  The other someone flew jets in the Navy and declared that in no uncertain terms dicta Boelke was not relevant to modern combat.  At this point a war veteran who flew missions in Korea (I think) jumped in and said that my associate may not have flown a plane but that if it came down to actual combat missions he'd invariably trust the person who took dicta Boelke seriously enough to see how it applied even in contemporary combat to some jet jockey in the Navy declaring that dicta Boelke was passe.  Why?  The war vet said clearly that understanding dicta Boelke saved his ass in actual combat situations. 

Life and death is not just about flight hours but the hundreds and thousands of mental exercises and processes of thinking through contingencies so that when the deadly moment comes up and you only have roughly 30 to 90 seconds at most to make decisions in aerial combat that mean life or death for you that you'll have trained yourself to make the best (you hope!) decision well before being on the plane and getting into a combat situation. 

Mars Hill and Driscoll in particular spent years saying they laughed at people who had seminary degrees in their resume because they had no "real" experience.  Book learning was a punchline for them.  Real dudes learn by doing and the great motto used to be that Mars Hill did not call the trained but sought instead to train the called.  The possibility that the "called" could end up being people who simply agreed with the vision-casting of Driscoll was not necessarily examined.  If we wish to take Driscoll's analogy about piloting on its face then it's not unreasonable to ask what flight school Driscoll attended, who gave him his pilot's license, who considered him a competent pilot, and which control tower he contacts when something comes up and a call has to be made what to do with the plane. 

The pilot is merely one person among legions of people who ensure that planes fly safely and Driscoll's analogy breaks down precisely because even the most trustworthy pilot (assuming, as Driscoll seems to want, that we assume that Driscoll's credentials as a pilot are actually impeccable) will crash the plane and kill everyone on it if someone botches the fuel check in the pre-flight check-up.  Given that a new "ceiling of complexity" was reached last year and the pilot arrangement got shuffled a bit with a new addition whose gifts were described as badly needed by Mars Hill for a long time who's to say that even the pilots wondered whether or not there was a need for a different pilot.  After all, Munson's gone and Turner is in (for now at least).

Unquestioning trust rather than second-guessing is clearly valued.

4. Trash the pilots after the plane arrives at its destination safely

Assume the worst, that the pilots are incompetent, uncaring, unloving, drunks, dangerous, thrill seekers, asleep at the wheel, etc. This can be mumbling quietly to those around you, talking loudly to make a scene, confronting the pilots on your way out, cussing someone out at the service desk, writing a nasty letter to headquarters, or posting your critiques online in a flame-throwing exercise.

More people complain about airport security and TSA then about pilots in the experience of this blogger.  That Mars Hill disciplinary approaches and rules could be likened to TSA is a post idea we'll leave to some other blogger. This one is rhetorical and mostly pointless.  People complain about bus drivers, too, and if Driscoll doesn't want people complaining about how he believes he should do his job he needs to remember it comes with any job a person does. 

3. Storm the cabin

Decide that you know what is really going on and that you are a better pilot, try and get some other passengers to agree with you, form a team, and try to storm the cabin and take over the plane with you as the new captain, saving everyone from the fiery doom you are certain is imminent.

In earlier metaphors this might have been represented as saying there are some people who want to take turns driving the bus who have to get thrown off. 

2. Panic

Just absolutely melt down. Get anxious, sweaty, angry, cry, cause a big fuss, get everyone worked into a frenzy, pretend you know what is going on, stress yourself out, and just fall apart.

The only people who won't panic in a high g turn "may" be trained pilots and even they will panic because high g turns are most likely to come up in life-and-death situations.  Panic is understandable but one of the things a pilot will do is to control his own panic response so as to placate the panic response of others.  A parent can learn that there are times when a baby figures out to panic because the baby sees the parent panic.

This point is essentially an ad hominem based on a dim understanding of physiological responses to a stressful flight situation.  Driscoll has not likely done anything more than appropriated a few interesting but useless concepts from flight and attempted to apply them to a defense of what may be unpopular changes at Mars Hill.  There are some names of historical significance within Mars Hill history that have dropped off the radar this year and nobody with any history at Mars Hill could have failed to notice who may have been the subject of Driscoll's #1.

1. Jump out of the plane
Stand up, freak out, make a scene, grab a parachute, and jump out of the plane with your résumé in hand hoping to land a job somewhere else. If you are really freaked out and negative, you can try and take as many passengers with you as possible, which is in your mind some kind of heroic act.

"Maybe he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him off a plane."

Sorry, couldn't resist the nerd reference.

A few years ago Driscoll said that there were guys who were off the bus and under the bus.  You probably know where to look by now and if you don't Chris Rosebrough's got some audio for you to hear. If the analogy has changed from bus to an airplane then some people could be said to have been thrown out of the pilot's cabin and out of the plane. 

In the First World War there were people who jumped out of the plane because the plane was on fire and if you were going to die anyway then it was better to die hitting the ground while also not being simultaneously on fire.  In the First World War for some time the British didn't issue parachutes to their pilots on some odd reasoning that it was unmanly to make use of one when you were about to die.  The Germans were not beset by this particular idiocy around the same time (if memory serves, and it may not) and were perfectly okay with using parachutes.  During this time the technology of flight had fits and starts, some of which led to deaths.  If you want a pet project to research this weekend dig into how Manfred von Richtoffen and Anthony Fokker had some falling out over the quality control on some plane stuff.

Number #1 is the most interesting of the 5 because of some presuppositions that appear to be built into it and the significance #1 has in connection to the older analogy about the bus.  In the past those who attempted to take turns driving the bus were described Driscoll as guys who needed to be thrown off and/or under the bus because they wanted to drive the bus somewhere else.  There were people who had to be run over by the bus and that analogy hardly befits a plane because a pilot who isn't on a suicide mission isn't going to "run over" someone.  But it's not a big shock if guys get ejected from the cabin and aren't on the pilot side of things may decide it's better to jump off the plane. 

Now how many people could have jumped off the Mars Hill plane in the last few  years?  There's a lot of guys in pastoral and deacon jobs at Mars Hill but some of the better-known names in the history of MH pastors seem to have dropped out.  Where's James Noriega?  Where's Kyle Firstenberg?  Where's James Harleman? Where's Chad Toulouse?  Where's Scott Thomas?  Where's  Chris Pledger, former legal counsel to Mars Hill?  These aren't questions for Wenatchee The Hatchet, who knows where these men have ended up for the most part, they're questions for the reader to consider as possible background to this new fascination Driscoll has with planes after having no previous interest in aviation.  Just suggesting that for those familiar with some of the long-standing names in Martian history there are some absences that are kinda hard to just not notice. 

Driscoll's #1 seems calibrated to tell current pastors to not jump out of the plane in the wake of what some might interpret as a case of leadership hemmorhaging.  No member would jump out of the Mars Hill plane with resume in hand hoping to land a job somewhere else but a deacon or a pastor who had been bumped out of being one of the pilots would have plenty of reason to jump out of the plane, particularly if ejected from the cabin. 

Maybe some things came to light about the pilot this year that a whole lot of people on the bus, er, plane, didn't know about him before.  We're not going to insult your intelligence by outlining where those things got documented.  The average joe with internet access can find them if desired, though of course the average joe may not be interested. 

Jumping out with a parachute in hand sure beats being thrown off the plane without one, let alone getting shot at after you've been thrown off. 

Mars Hill looking for a publishing manager

Well, Matt Johnson is still a pastor at Mars Hill but no longer publishing manager at the Resurgence

http://marshill.com/2012/03/19/books-going-global
Matt Johnson is a pastor at the Ballard church and the manager of Re:Lit, Mars Hill and the Resurgence’s publishing arm.

http://theresurgence.com/authors/matt-johnson
Matt Johnson is a pastor at Mars Hill Church and publication manager for Re:lit and Resurgence. He also serves as a leader in Mars Hill's Redemption groups.

Throughout the 90s and the early part of the decade, Matt was a traveling musician. Matt met his wife, Rose, at Mars Hill in '97 and they served in music ministry together for over 10 years. In recent years Matt has written music criticism for Paste Magazine, Three Imaginary Girls, Seattle Sound, and Bandoppler.

Matt and Rose got married in 2001 and they have two young daughters.

If you want an independent verification outside a Mars Hill affiliation ...

http://www.mbird.com/author/matt-johnson/

Husband / Father / Resurgence Publishing Manager / Drum sesher/Biblical Living Pastor @ Mars Hill Church. Long walks on the beach, puppies, Black Sabbath.

Johnson is currently listed as just a pastor at the U-District

http://marshill.com/udistrict

And for those curious about the open publishing manager position:

http://marshill.com/jobs
http://marshill.com/jobs/publishing-manager



This link is for Andrew over at CoG

http://zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/covenant-or-contract/

It will probably only make sense to him. :)

And, yeah, totally agree with West on this point.  Campbell seems to start building a case from a "non-contractual" or anti-contractual approach that proposes a basic failure of all justification theology without (as yet) seeming to account for how contractual/covenantal theology sure seems foundational to OT literature and how Paul was likely to have understood that literature.

This is one of those blog posts that maybe four people on earth care about.  As far as that goes that's sort of what Wenatchee The Hatchet does.  It's all worth it if someone benefits from a blog post discussing the use of sonata allegro forms in the works of Sor, Giuliani and Diabelli, though.

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Since it's that kind of year, here's an old sonnet I wrote during the last cycle

On election (04/07/08)

In all the steady hand of Providence
guides well except if, this election year,
the party I love lacks preeminence.
Then I will cry out with many a tear:
"My God, my God, why did you forsake me!
The person I want in office has lost!
In your wrath have you forgotten mercy?
Have it on me and not the foolish host!
Did you break your promise to do my will
That was given `ere the day I was born?
Or did my requests lack a prayerful skill
that You listened not, and I am forlorn?
In all things Providence can only be
The stuff that should be convenient to me!"

Friday, October 26, 2012

and the last bat-installment just went up

The final installment in Batman: The Agony of Loss and the Madness of Desire just went up and, as befits a series written for Mockingbird an essay dealing with synergistic soteriology gets followed up with one on monergistic soteriological narrative.  And, as seemed appropriate in earlier installments of Cross Thresholds, things open with a quote from Solzhenitsyn.

http://www.mbird.com/2012/10/batman-the-agony-of-loss-and-the-madness-of-desire-pt-6c/

Also linked at Mockingbird this week is the guest piece for Internet Monk I wrote for Christian Music Month.  It pops up in Another Week Ends

http://www.mbird.com/2012/10/another-week-ends-taylor-swift-tragedys-tragedy-friday-night-faith-crises-of-boredom-and-more-november-haidt/

Congratulations to DZ for a new baby. :) 

I think we'll have to take a break from superheroes for a little while.  Sometimes we do have to get around to blogging about music here. 

There may also be need of a hiatus or lower rate of blogging activity for the sake of mundane and obvious reasons.  Humanity does not generally live on blogging alone, after all.  Time will tell.













Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Mars Hill Downtown in 2007: "It has appraised at over $1M more than our purchase price. So instantly we have $1M in equity ... "

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf
December 2007
FROM STEWARDSHIP
responses submitted by Pastor Jamie Munson
p 74
We have been looking for a space in downtown Seattle for well over six months. The process of finding, negotiating and ultimately leasing or purchasing a piece of property takes some time to do so. The church has known for sometime we were looking for a space and when we found a specific property we informed the members on the members site to this fact.  In addition we announced this on Sunday from the pulpit prior to closing on the propety.  We were careful to not publish the information too broadly or too prematurely knowing it would garner a lot of attention because of its past. We have obtained a loan for 80% of the 3.95M purchase price and have raised the funds for the 20% down payment, primarily from the core group that will be attending the downtown campus. All of these announcements have been on the members site to view.  The building we have purchased is at 2333 Western Ave in the heart of Belltown. It has appraised at over $1M more than our purchase price. So instantly we have $1M in equity and a good building that will take minior modifications to be used as a church. In addition the zoning of the property permits building up to 85 feet on the property so it is an attractive piece for future redevelopment if Jesus should lead us in that direction. In addition, immediately after our offer was accepted the seller of the property had 3 back up offers so there is significant interest in this property that Jesus has blessed us with. When looking to purchase property we use several qualified consultants which include our bank, developers, real estate brokers, attorneys, architects and good business men and women to speak into the decisions. 

It's been a mystery how Munson concluded that the 2333 Western Ave real estate was appraised at $4.95 million and that this meant $1M in instant equity.  "It has" didn't tell a whole lot about when the appraisal was made, who made it, and on what grounds the appraisal was made.  Available information suggests that the appraised value of 2333 Western Avenue was not at $4,950,000 in 2007.

http://www.city-data.com/king-county/W/Western-Avenue-32.html
According to this link in 2007 the land was assessed at a value of $2,304,000.00.  The building was listed at $1,000.
Sale date: 10/25/2007
 Price: $3,950,000
 Seller: ROCKET ENTERPRISES INC
 Buyer: MARS HILL FELLOWSHIP
 Sale instrument: Statutory Warranty Deed

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/king-county/W/Western-Avenue-32.html#ixzz2AFjP7yWG
At least according to city-data.com the value of the in 2007 was $2,304,000 and the value of the building was $1,000.  Then the value of the land land plunged down to $1,370,900 and the building was still listed at $1,000 in 2008.  If the value of the land, according to city-date.com was $2,304,000 and the building was worth $1,000.00 then how did buying 2333 Western Ave constitute one million dollars in instant equity?   Now it's possible that the information at city-data.com could be inaccurate and it's not entirely clear who might have provided Mars Hill with an evaluation that said 2333 Western Avenue was worth $4.95 million (thus leading to Pastor Jamie Munson concluding that by buying the real estate at $3.95 million Mars Hill somehow got $1M instant equity). 

Currently 2333 Western Avenue is available for sale at a price of $4,500,000.00 with the following group

http://www.churchadvisors.net/new-listings/2012/8/4/former-union-hall-near-pike-place-market-seattle-wa.html

If you go to their front page ...

http://www.churchadvisors.net/

Mars Hill Church Bellevue Bellevue                LEASED          27,461SF    Long Term
Mars Hill Church                Belltown                SOLD              14,400 SF   $3,950,000
Mars Hill Church                Ballard                   SOLD              84,150 SF   $7,300,000
Anchor Baptist Church       Lake City               SOLD              18,000 SF   $2,000,000

Keep in mind that Anchor Baptist Church was the real estate that was, at one point, Mars Hill Lake City. Church Advisors has played a role in connection to at least four pieces of real estate that have had something to do with Mars Hill.  Who exactly conveyed information to Jamie Munson that 2333 Western Avenue was valued at $4.95 is still not clear but someone gave Munson the idea that the real estate that became Mars Hill Downtown from 2007 to 2012 was worth $4,950,000.

But let's suppose city-data.com could have gotten some things wrong.  Maybe the real estate didn't lose at least a million in value between 2007 and 2008.  Perhaps there's a way to establish how someone could have been convinced that what became Mars Hill Downtown was worth a cumulative $4.95 million as would be the case if Munson's report in 2007 said it was.  What can we find that's available from King County listings?

http://info.kingcounty.gov/Assessor/eRealProperty/Dashboard.aspx?ParcelNbr=0654000315


Parcel Number 065400-0315
Name MARS HILL FELLOWSHIP
Site Address 2333 WESTERN AVE 98121
Legal BELL AND DENNYS 1ST ADD POR TAXABLE



Valued Year Tax Year Appraised Land Value Appraised Imps Value Appraised Total Taxable Land Value Taxable Imps Value Taxable Total
2012 2013 $2,736,000 $741,300 $3,477,300 $1,247,600 $0 $1,247,600
2011 2012 $2,736,000 $779,400 $3,515,400 $1,247,600 $0 $1,247,600
2010 2011 $2,736,000 $733,500 $3,469,500 $1,247,700 $0 $1,247,700
2009 2010 $2,736,000 $800,700 $3,536,700 $1,247,700 $0 $1,247,700
2008 2009 $2,736,000 $794,200 $3,530,200 $1,247,700 $0 $1,247,700
2007 2008 $2,520,000 $1,000 $2,521,000 $1,149,100 $0 $1,149,100
2006 2007 $2,304,000 $1,000 $2,305,000 $2,304,000 $1,000 $2,305,000
2005 2006 $2,016,000 $1,000 $2,017,000 $2,016,000 $1,000 $2,017,000

Maybe someone can spell out where this indicates that 2333 Western Avenue in Seattle was appraised at $4,950,000 in 2007 when Mars Hill bought it. 

Now the people who would be in a position to know, in theory, how Munson came to the number of $4.95M were the executive elders who were in place when the bid was made on the property.  For sake of review here's the criteria for eligiblity for executive eldership at Mars Hill prior to the end of October 2007.

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/bylaws-prior-to-10-29-2007-official-mars-hill-church-bylaws-2-11-06-rev.pdf

Section C
The executive elder team shall consist of men who meet the following criteria in addition to the qualifications and duties of an elder outlined in Article I:
* The elder must be a full-time employee of Mars Hill Church
* The elder must have served as an elder for at least one year [emphasis added]
* The elder must nominate himself for consideration to be a member of the executive elder team
* The elder must receive a two-thirds vote of approval by all elders
* If more than seven men meet these criteria, then those seven men receiving the highest number of votes will be accepted
* If there is a tie among two or more men for the seventh seat on the lead elder team, a new vote will be taken by all elders (on only the seventh position) with the man receiving the highest vote total being appointed to the lead elder team.


And here's an overview of the powers and duties reserved for the executive elders from the same set of bylaws.

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/bylaws-prior-to-10-29-2007-official-mars-hill-church-bylaws-2-11-06-rev.pdf


By-Laws of Mars Hill Fellowship
A Nonprofit Corporation Without Members


Article VI
The Executive Elder Team


Section E

Except for those powers and duties reserved for the full Council of Elders under Article VII, Section A and RCW 24.03.112 or similar statute, the following issues are reserved for determination by the executive elder team and may not be decided by a Departmental, Site, or Ad Hoc Elder Team:


  • Establishing the overall vision for the entire church
  • Purchase, sale, or rental of real estate
  • Approving new services and venues
  • Comprehensive operational budget line items
  • Capital expenditures budget
  • Hiring and firing of elders who are also employees (the employment status of an employee who is also an elder may be determined by the executive elder team, but such person's status as an elder is reserved to the full Council of Elders)
  • Issues delegated or reserved to the executive elder team by resolution of the full Council of Elders


Section F
For an issue to meet the approval of the executive elder team it must receive a unanimous vote (abstention permitted).


Now after a bit of slogging through old documents it can be established who the executive elders were as of June 2007:

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

Appendix B (p 113 of 145)
Mars Hill Re-organization document
previously sent to members on June 23, 2007
(pages 3-4)

Changing our Executive Team
A pivotal shift was streamlining our Executive Team. On June 11 at the All-Elders' meeting, Pastors Tim (Smith), Steve (Tompkins), Mike (Wilkerson), James (Harleman) and Lief (Moi) stepped down as Executive Elders. Subsequently, Scott Thomas and Bubba Jennings nominated themselves as Executive Elders and were voted in, establishing the Executive roles corresponding to the new team structure and transitioning the other pastors to their new roles in the revised organizational structure. Additionally, Tim Beltz, who is an elder candidate, is serving on a consulting basis to the Executive Elders and helping provide a wealth of nonprofit management experience to our decision making.

So during June 2007 Smith, Tompkins, Wilkerson, Harleman and Moi all stepped down as executive elders.  Mark Driscoll and Jamie Munson remained executive elders and Scott Thomas and Bubba Jennings nominated themselves.   

In a "where are they now?" overview, here's what can be learned about the people who could have been in a position to know why Munson claimed that 2333 Western Avenue was valued at $4,950,000. 

Jamie Munson is currently co-president of Storyville Coffee Company and is not a paid elder at Mars Hill.  He's co-president with a 5% ownership in the company, another 5% is owned by Kris Rosentrater, and 90% is owned by Jon Phelps.  See notes from minutes below at a neighborhood preservation shindig:

http://www.seattle.gov/neighborhoods/preservation/documents/MHC4.11.12.pdf

Scott Thomas is Pastor of Ministry Development at Darrin Patrick's church The Journey.
https://twitter.com/scottythom

Although if you go to the Ministry Development segment for leadership at The Journey you may not necessarily find Thomas.  He may have finally resigned his membership at Mars Hill or perhaps he hasn't.  See if you can find Scott Thomas listed in leadership at The Journey on The Journey's website.  He must be there and, at any rate, he preached a few sermons. Acts 29 seems too  complementarian to have their one listed person in Ministry Development be someone named Katie unless Patrick is more egalitarian than the average Acts 29 pastor.

http://thejourney.org/leadership/staff/ministry-development

Bubba Jennings is poised to plant Mars Hill Tacoma and is currently listed as lead pastor at Mars Hill Federal Way.

http://marshill.com/pastors/bubba-jennings

Then, in very late October 2007 there was Tim Beltz.  That Tim Beltz was a consultant in earlier 2007 has been established.  "Consultant" would not mean actual pastor at Mars Hill would it?  Even if it could have been said that Beltz was an employee by way of being a consultant he couldn't have been a full-time consultant while he was COO at CRISTA Ministries.  He was also listed as an elder candidate in June 2007 which would have made it impossible for him to be eligible in October 2007 to be an executive elder right away.  But he wasn't installed until October 29, 2007 after the firings of Meyer and Petry got wrapped up and the newer by-laws were passed.  By that time the purchase of 2333 Western Avenue, the old club Tabella, had also been wrapped up.  So there were four executive elders in place at the time the bid was made and it would appear there was unanimity of some kind about the purchase and the purchase price.  After all, that's what the by-laws would have called for.

So where the purchase of 2333 Western Avenue by Mars Hill was concerned , to go by the June 2007 statement,  the executive elders who would have overseen that process were Mark Driscoll, Jamie Munson, Scott Thomas, and Bubba Jennings.  Church Advisors also seemed to play a role in significant real estate acquisitions undertaken by Mars Hill from roughly 2005-2007 and has announced that the old Tabella (i.e. 2333 Western Ave) is available for sale at a price of $4,500,000. 

What is also clear is that Munson was willing to say the real estate had been appraised at $4,950,000 and that Mars Hill having bought the real estate meant one million dollars in instant equity.  How he got this number and why he and other executive elders thought it was a reliable number remains a mystery.