Saturday, January 21, 2023

an apparent account of Mark Driscoll's resignation from Mars Hill from the 2021 book Pray Like Jesus, juxtaposed with prior accounts and Sutton Turner's published notes from the 2014 investigation of Mark Driscoll

Pray Like Jesus: Learn to Pray to God as Father

Mark Driscoll and Ashley Chase

Copyright © 2021 by Mark Driscoll and Ashley Chase

Charisma House

ISBN 978-1-62999-926-5

ISBN 978-1-62999-927-2 (ebook)

 

Before I (Mark) married Grace, I prayed a lot. She did the same. We also asked our Christian friends and family to join us. Since we were young, we did not want simply to ask God to bless our plan, but we wanted to ask God to give us His plan. Are you getting married? Sort that out with God first. Whom you marry is the second-most important decision you will ever make after whom you will worship. The same is true of any major life decision. One of our pastors, who has taught us a lot, walked with us through the biggest decision-making season of our life as a married couple. We took months to pray and asked others to pray with us and for us. We wanted God to tell us whether we should stay in a ministry, home, and city that we’d been serving for a few decades or if we should transition into a completely unknown future in faith.

 

After months of prayer God spoke to us both audibly at the same time. Grace was in the kitchen, and I was in the bed-room on the opposite end of our home. Grace came running in the bedroom to tell me that God had spoken to her, and stunned, I told her that at the same moment He spoke to her, he also spoke to me. He told us both we were “released”.

 

This word from the Lord led to the biggest faith step of our lives as we did not know what was next but knew that a season of our life had ended and we needed to step out together, in faith. In submission to the pastoral authority over us, we asked our overseers whether they agreed this was a word from God. They confirmed what God said.

 

Without months of praying together and God supernaturally answering this prayer, we would have been divided, and, as Jesus taught, our household would have fallen apart. Thankfully, because of prayer, we were united and able to lead our five kids through an incredibly painful and difficult time. We are now in the holiest, happiest, and healthiest season of our lives, doing ministry together because God heard and answered our prayers.   Pages 50-51

 

In this account Mark Driscoll mentioned that he and Grace prayed for months about whether or not to leave the ministry they had been in.  Because Mark Driscoll had not pastored a church prior to Mars Hill there is basically no room for misunderstanding the “ministry” identity. The Driscolls, Mark tells us, wanted God to tell them whether they should stay at Mars Hill or transition into a new unknown future. 

 

Mark Driscoll, obviously recounted that after months of prayers by him and his wife, God audibly spoke to both of them.  They were released. Now we’ll get back to other accounts of this moment before long but the most significant element in this newer account is what Mark Driscoll reports as having happened next—the Driscolls went to their overseers and asked whether they agreed God released them.  This seems to be a reference to the former Mars Hill Board of Overseers, a subset of the Board of Advisors and Accountability.  Driscoll’s account was that the Board of Overseers, apparently, concluded that God had, in fact, spoken to Mark and Grace Driscoll and that would entail that the board accepted Mark Driscoll’s resignation. 


We're about to get detailed so if that's okay with you read on.

 

This Pray Like Jesus account of Mark Driscoll's resignation from Mars Hill (since he didn't pastor any other church besides it before planting The Trinity Church )brings us back to the question of why Michael Van Skaik and the other members of the Board of Overseers didn’t say anything about this stuff at the time of Mark Driscoll’s resignation in October of 2014.  I’ve discussed these in the past but it’s worth revisiting them again.

 

https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2015/07/six-available-accounts-of-mark-driscoll.html

 

 

THE RESIGNATION LETTER ITSELF, ON GODLY MEN AND WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY SOUGHT FOR COUNSEL
http://www.religionnews.com/?p=109053

https://religionnews.com/2014/10/15/exclusive-mark-driscolls-resignation-letter-to-mars-hill-church/


October 14, 2014

Michael Van Skaik

Chairman, Board of Advisors and Accountability

Mars Hill Church

 

Dear Michael:

 

By God’s grace I have pastored Mars Hill Church for 18 years. Today, also by God’s grace, and with the full support of my wife Grace, I resign my position as a pastor and elder of Mars Hill. I do so with profound sadness, but also with complete peace.

 

On August 24th I announced to our Mars Hill family of churches that I had requested a leave of absence from the pulpit and the office for a minimum of six weeks while a committee of elders conducted a formal review of charges made against me by various people in recent times. Last week our Board of Overseers met for an extended period of time with Grace and me, thereby concluding the formal review of charges against me. I want to thank you for assuring Grace and me that last Saturday that I had not disqualified myself from ministry. [emphases added]

 

You have shared with us that this committee spent more than 1,000 hours reviewing documents and interviewing some of those who had presented charges against me. You have also shared with me that many of those making charges against me declined to meet with you or participate in the review process at all. Consequently, those conducting the review of charges against me began to interview people who had not even been a party to the charges.

 

I readily acknowledge I am an imperfect messenger of the gospel of Jesus Christ. There are many things I have confessed and repented of, privately and publicly, as you are well aware. Specifically, I have confessed to past pride, anger and a domineering spirit. As I shared with our church in August, “God has broken me many times in recent years by showing me where I have fallen short, and while my journey, at age 43, is far from over, I believe He has brought me a long way from some days I am not very proud of, and is making me more like Him every day.”

 

Prior to and during this process there have been no charges of criminal activity, immorality or heresy, any of which could clearly be grounds for disqualification from pastoral ministry. Other issues, such as aspects of my personality and leadership style, have proven to be divisive within the Mars Hill context, and I do not want to be the source of anything that might detract from our church’s mission to lead people to a personal and growing relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

That is why, after seeking the face and will of God, and seeking godly counsel from men and women across the country, we have concluded it would be best for the health of our family, and for the Mars Hill family, that we step aside from further ministry at the church we helped launch in 1996. I will gladly work with you in the coming days on any details related to our separation. [emphasis added]

 

Recent months have proven unhealthy for our family—even physically unsafe at times—and we believe the time has now come for the elders to choose new pastoral leadership for Mars Hill. Grace and I pledge our full support in this process and will join you in praying for God’s best for this, His church, in the days and years ahead. Grace and I would also covet your prayers for us as we seek God’s will for the next chapter of our lives. Therefore, consider this written notice of my voluntary termination of employment.

 

Finally, it would be my hope to convey to the wonderful members of the Mars Hill family how deeply my family and I love them, thank them, and point them to their Senior Pastor Jesus Christ who has always been only good to us.

 

Sincerely,

Pastor Mark Driscoll

A day later …

THE BOARD OF OVERSEERS ACCOUNT
On October 15, 2014 ... Mars Hill issued the following statement.

http://web.archive.org/web/20141016105922/https://marshill.com/2014/10/15/pastor-mark-driscolls-resignation

Pastor Mark Driscoll's Resignation
By: Mars Hill Church
Posted: Oct 15, 2014


On Tuesday, October 14, Pastor Mark Driscoll submitted his resignation as an elder and lead pastor of Mars Hill Church. The Board of Overseers has accepted that resignation [emphasis added] and is moving forward with planning for pastoral transition, recognizing the challenge of such a task in a church that has only known one pastor since its founding. We ask for prayer for the journey ahead.

As is well known, inside and outside of Mars Hill, Pastor Mark has been on a leave of absence for nearly two months while a group of elders investigated a series of formal charges brought against him. This investigation had only recently been concluded, following some 1,000 hours of research, interviewing more than 50 people and preparing 200 pages of information. This process was conducted in accordance with our church Bylaws and with Pastor Mark’s support and cooperation.

 

While a group of seven elders plus one member of the Board of Overseers was charged with conducting this investigation, the full Board of Overseers is charged with reaching any conclusions and issuing any findings. In that capacity, we believe it appropriate to publicly mention the following:

 

1.    We concluded that Pastor Mark has, at times, been guilty of arrogance, responding to conflict with a quick temper and harsh speech, and leading the staff and elders in a domineering manner. While we believe Mark needs to continue to address these areas in his life, we do not believe him to be disqualified from pastoral ministry.

2.    Pastor Mark has never been charged with any immorality, illegality or heresy. Most of the charges involved attitudes and behaviors reflected by a domineering style of leadership.

3.    We found some of the accusations against Pastor Mark to be altogether unfair or untrue.

4.    Other charges had been previously been addressed by Pastor Mark, privately and publicly. Indeed, he had publicly confessed and apologized for a number of the charges against him, some of which occurred as long as 14 years ago.

5.    We commend Mark for acting upon the vision God gave him to start Mars Hill Church and for his ministry of faithfully teaching the Word of God for the past 18 years. We commit to pray for him, for Grace, and for their children as they transition from ministry at Mars Hill Church.

 

We would ask for patience as we now make plans for the first transition of pastoral leadership in the history of Mars Hill Church. We have asked Pastor Dave Bruskas to serve as the primary teaching pastor while we work on long-term plans and decisions. Our elders and board members will work closely with the church staff to support the ongoing operations of Mars Hill in the days and months ahead.

 

Finally, Mark Driscoll was not asked to resign; indeed, we were surprised to receive his resignation letter. While he can speak to his decision as he chooses, we would point to just two things from his letter. He noted that he had concluded “it would be best for the health of our family, and for the Mars Hill family, that we step aside from further ministry at the church.” [emphasis added] Secondly, he specifically wanted to convey “to the wonderful members of the Mars Hill family, how deeply my family and I love them, thank them, and point them to their Senior Pastor, Jesus Christ, who has always been only good to us.”

 

Mars Hill Board of Overseers

Michael Van Skaik

Larry Osborne

Jon Phelps

Matt Rogers


They accepted Driscoll’s resignation without making any reference to Mark saying he and Grace heard God audibly tell both of them they were “released”.  The Board members wrote that they were surprised to receive Mark Driscoll’s resignation and didn’t ask for it. In a later statement Mars Hill members were told the Board of Overseers were grieved by Mark Driscoll’s decision to resign rather than cooperate with a restoration plan. If he was not found disqualified from ministry in the appraisal of the Board of Overseers they nevertheless believed Mark Driscoll needed to go through a restoration process before they would let him preach in the pulpit again.  Thus … an October 19, 2014 statement relayed by Warren Throckmorton.

THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT DRISCOLL HAD GRIEVED THE BoE and BoO BY RESIGNING RATHER THAN SUBMIT TO RESTORATION PLAN

https://wthrockmorton.com/2014/10/19/mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-mark-driscoll-resigned-instead-of-enter-restoration-plan-to-deal/

 

[Formerly http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/10/19/mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-mark-driscoll-resigned-instead-of-enter-restoration-plan-to-deal/

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/files/2014/10/Alex-Ghioni-Announcement.m4a

starting about 3:45]

The investigation of formal charges against Mark Driscoll has revealed patterns of persistent sin in the three areas disclosed in the previous letter by the Board of Overseers. In I Tim 5:20, it requires that an elder be rebuked for persistent sin. Our intention was to do this while providing a plan for his eventual restoration to leadership. The Board of Elders in agreement with the Board of Overseers are grieved, deeply grieved, that any process like that was lost to us when Mark Driscoll resigned in position and left the church. [emphasis added] Now is the time to move on and consider what God is calling us to next as a church as we participate in Jesus’ mission to make disciples in His name. Today begins a new chapter in the history of our church which has proceeded in one direction under one leadership for many years now, but I want you to understand this, God is our Father. That does not change. Jesus is the chief shepherd of the church and that has not changed.

The elders of Mars Hill Church acknowledge as we’ve gone through all of this investigation, and heard all of these stories, we acknowledge that we have personally led in some of the same ways that demonstrate some of the same ways that Pastor Mark had. And those things require repentance and forgiveness and restoration. We realize that there are ways that we have led as elders in ways that have been domineering, sometimes arrogant and sometimes boastful and at least for my part, I want to say I deeply regret those sins and I ask for your forgiveness.  We want to lead you into the future in a way that displays more grace, more love as we speak the truth to each of you. If there are people that I have offended in ways I have pastored this church, I would welcome that you come to me and speak with me to allow me the opportunity to reconcile with you.

At this time Mars Hill Church is going to move ahead under the Board of Overseers established plan for transition. Pastor Dave Bruskas will serve as the teaching and preaching pastor during an interim period of time until we establish a direction we are going as a church. The Board of Advisors are going to be working in the weeks to come on a plan for moving forward and for how that will unfold, what the next steps are, there are a lot of things to consider. As we discover what those things are, what the spirit shows us, then we want to communicate clearly to you and transparently to you what’s happening, the directions and the changes that will be taking place.

 

Whoever the wise counsel was that Driscoll said he sought that may have counseled him to resign, it probably wasn’t anyone on the Board of Overseers. Who was around who would say for the record he or she DID advise Driscoll to step away from ministry?  That turned out to be Robert Morris, by his own account:

ROBERT MORRIS EXPLAINS ON 10-20-2014 THAT HE AND MARK DRISCOLL AGREED HE SHOULD STEP DOWN

https://wthrockmorton.com/2014/10/20/mark-driscoll-rocks-the-gateway-conference/

https://www.wthrockmorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Transcript-Robert-Morris-Mark-Driscoll.pdf?_ga=2.94096733.1163256632.1674360573-360825403.1674360573

 

Transcript of Robert Morris and Mark Driscoll from the Gateway Leadership + Worship Conference on the evening of Monday, October 20, 2014, as broadcast live via DayStar Television

 

Robert Morris:

 

“Tonight’s been phenomenal. Would you agree? So far uh, we’re just getting started (applause). Part of our heart is that you’re refreshed in the presence of God, when you come. And I hope you, you were refreshed in his presence, uh, tonight. Uhm, I wanna before I uh introduce Steven, our our speaker tonight, I want to introduce you to a friend. A good friend of mine. And I’ve been um speaking with him for several months now. He’s going through uh a a difficulty that most of you’ve probably read about. Um, I know the behind the scenes story. Uh, he was supposed to speak at our conference. Uh, it was publicized that we cancelled him; that’s not true, we did not cancel. I’m speaking of Mark Driscoll. We did not cancel him. He and I decided together uh that he was going to step out of ministry for a season and get some healing. [emphasis added] Uh he asked me, ‘could I come to the conference and just attend’? And I thought that was very big of him. To just come and be ministered to and again I just want to say a couple things, first of all, I want you to know that everything you read on the internet is not true (laughter, applause). And there are some pastors, myself included, and some others that you would know, that we’re speaking into his life and he’s listening. And uh, uh uh most of what you read is not true. Some of it is. He did make some mistakes. Uh here’s what I figure. We’ve got two choices. One is we could crucify him (pause). But since someone’s already been crucified (hollering)for him (applause, hollering). The other choice is we could restore him with a spirit of gentleness considering ourselves, lest we are also tempted (applause). It is very sad that in the church we’re the only army that shoots at our wounded. And I want you to stop it. I really do. Thank you. I’d like for you to show your love for him and for you to just welcome him. Mark would you stand up. This is Mark Driscoll. (Standing ovation, extended applause, hollering, whistling). (murmuring between MD and RM) (more applause, hollering, whistling)”

 

Mark Driscoll (begins at 2:58):

“Thank you Pastor Robert. Uhm. What do you want me to do? If you give a microphone to a preacher who’s been gone for a while, he could go for a long time (laughter). Uhm.”

Robert Morris (3:10): (points to floor): “Trap Door”.

 

Mark Driscoll (3:11):

“Alright Uhm. Very, very - love you and thank you as well, thank you. Uhm. Yah, for me I’m in a season of just uh healin’ up, praying. Uh, asking the Lord Jesus through wise counsel to show me any blindspots where I can grow. And as Pastor Appreciation Month I just wanna say that Jee-Jesus really appreciates you and appreciates your family and uh, if you think of anything, just pray for my family. I think there’s a lot I could say that would make me feel better. I don’t know that it would make me look better, but I don’t think it would make Jesus look better, so I won’t say anything other than uh just pray for my family we’ve had a uh a very trying season and uh um, just trying to figure out how to be a good pastor to my family first. We all know that’s the most important thing and uh, um, (burp) would you mind if I shared a story or two? Uhm, is that okay, like? Um. I, I’ve cried a lot lately uhm er it’s been a rough season for the family. I guess you could take a seat. Um, (laughter) and um, and for those of you, I would say don’t overlook your family as first ministry. Uhmm. And for me we’re just really appreciate your prayer for our family. We’ve got five kids, three boys, two girls, ages 8 to 17 and uh we’ve moved three times now for safety issues. Uhm. People arrested at our home, death threats, uh address posted on-line, all kinds of things and uh more recently it’s gotten very severe. We came home from break. There was rusty nails all over the driveway. We uh, we uh we had a night where the kids wanted to sleep out in the tent and uh I got a call that um my uh address was posted on-line by the media and um so, we, we, we went out of town for a few days, came back uh the kids said ‘no, we gotta sleep in the tent so I didn’t sleep. But we, we were in the tent all night and uh, woke up in the morning about 6:30or so and huge rocks about the size of baseballs come flying at my kids uh 8, 10 and 12 years of age. Call the police. Flee into the house for their safety. Uh a few days later. I think it was, I don’t remember, the media flies overhead with a helicopter and is trying to flush us out for a story. And uh that night uh we’re hiding in the house, my 8 year old son comes down and he’s wearing a military jacket, he’s loading up his Air Soft rifle (laughter)and he uh (MD chuckles) he looks at me and he says ‘hey dad is this uh is this jacket bullet proof? (soft laughter)and I just started crying and said, ‘why’s that little buddy?’ and he said, ‘Well it’s bad guys in the helicopter coming to shoot the family, right?’ He didn’t have any concept of, of media coverage, he thought it was bad guys coming to kill his family and he was gonna defend his sister (faint laughter) and so uh praise God he’s finally sleeping in his bed again, but it’s been a while to get him to do that with night terrors and so, there’s just a lot going on for our family, I appreciate Pastor Robert and the team here. I just want to come here to uh sing, to pray, uh to learn, to grow, uh to repent, to heal and uh uh God is surrounding me with some great pastors and friends, and if I could just say anything, it’s ‘every pastor needs a pastor’. And and, uh you pastors, your family needs you to be their pastor. So thank you”. (applause, whistling).

 

Robert Morris (begins 6:34):

“Thank you, thank you for your graciousness very much and um, um., we’re grateful. Debbie and I’ve been able to spend some time with Mark and Grace and talking with them and uuhh, we were talking the night before he resigned and talking about that and um talking through the situation and you know he uh resigned the church he founded and pastored for 18 years. (draws breath) Uhm, he, he, you know, when I say he made some mistakes, he made some mistakes like he past- he preached ten to twelve years, 50 weeks a year. Sometimes six services a weekend. And uh it’s just not healthy and um, so I’m uh glad that uh he’s saying, ‘help me’. ‘Hel-help me learn uh to do it differently and do it better.” And so I love him very, very much and um I’m I’m glad that he’s here. Uh you’re going to be blessed. Uhm, tonight I was thinking though that uh we invited uh Mark and Steven to be at, a part of our conference and they both got bad media this year. Huh-huh-huh-uh-he, I uh-uh-huh-uhuh I just uh they’re buddies now. So huh-uh (laughter) Uh but uh but it is surprising how, how uh we believe so quickly something that we read, uh about a brother in Christ that we’ve never even met.


Mark Driscoll publicly mentioning being audibly told by God he was “released” didn’t happen until 2015, when he spoke at the Thrive Conference


Then in 2015, at the Thrive performance, Mark Driscoll introduced a previously unmentioned narrative element, a direct divine edict.

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2015/05/courtesy-throckmorton-thrive-transcript.html
https://wthrockmorton.com/2015/05/03/audio-of-mark-driscolls-speech-at-thrive-2015-leadership-conference/

https://wthrockmorton.com/2015/05/13/transcript-of-mark-driscolls-speech-at-the-thrive-leadership-conference-2015/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wYBTnRpPHRb8N1nqtgP2FcHcdnBeMIqCYy2SyQCEWBg/edit

 

Transcript | Mark Driscoll | Thrive 2015-05-01
See Links to Timestamps at the end of this doc. [these omitted here]

...

[6:34]
It finally came to the point where God released my wife and I from our responsibility to ministry. He spoke to us audibly. It wasn’t what we were expecting. It wasn’t what we had agreed to. We were both pretty shocked and the announcement was going to come out that week. [emphasis added] And, uh, our server, our e-mail and things apparently were hacked and there was no way to get anything done without it being a public situation. And so the Board, which are good, godly people in authority, which I appreciate -- they released a statement earlier than we were anticipating, so um, but that meant, and I agree with that decision, I’m not critical of it.  But that meant that I hadn’t told my kids that I had resigned and they were in school, taking test, it was a test week, …. we threw some stuff in a bag and ran to school to grab the kids and within minutes it was on TV, I think it was on CNN.  [emphasis added] We pulled the kids out of school, and they already knew because of social media -- media moves so fast.  So we told them they couldn’t go back to the house for a few days so we jumped in the car and went to a hotel and it was just kind of a emotionally wrecked.  We’d served in that city for 20 years.  Founded that church in our living room. And served it for 18 years.  (loud applause) Baptized somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 people. (audible amens from crowd).
[8:13]
So, we’re sitting with the kids explaining to them that dad had resigned and that we were going to continue forward and that God had released us very clearly.  And my middle son -- he is really the pastor’s heart of the family, he’s a shepherd -- his first question, I just lost it, he said “Who’s going to care for the people?” We stayed there for a few days. Drove them into school for their tests. I went home and checked the security footage and yeah, there was a lot of people at our house taking photos.  It was a good thing we weren’t there.  We finally came home.


In the Thrive account the Board of Overseers released the resignation letter statement sooner than Mark Driscoll anticipated but the salient question in light of the Pray Like Jesus account is this—if Mark and Grace Driscoll spent months praying together about whether to stay at Mars Hill or leave how in the dark did they decide to keep their kids about things?  Apparently completely in the dark if the kids found out about Mark Driscoll’s resignation via the media before Mark or Grace had taken time to talk to their kids. 

 

A month later, talking with Brian Houston, the divine oracle element of the narrative got more detailed.


BRIAN HOUSTON INTERVIEW SUMMER 2015, MARK DRISCOLL CLAIMS HE HEARD "A TRAP HAS BEEN SET", RESIGNS AFTER SAYING HE AGREED TO RESTORATION PLAN
https://wthrockmorton.com/2015/06/29/hillsongs-brian-houston-interviewed-mark-and-grace-driscoll-after-all/

https://wthrockmorton.com/2015/07/29/brian-houston-publishes-interview-with-mark-and-grace-driscoll/

https://wthrockmorton.com/2015/07/19/whats-next-for-mark-driscoll/?_ga=2.30582399.1163256632.1674360573-360825403.1674360573

https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/07/14/transcript-of-brian-houstons-nice-interview-with-mark-grace-driscoll/


39.45
I never got to say good-bye to the church and the people and so what went public was actually the resignation letter that went to the legal governing board that was in authority over me and so, uh, i uh, I know under the circumstances there wasn't a way to do that that would have been, uh, clean or easy. I don't have any criticism of the board. I think that, for the people, that there wasn't closure and I didn't, we didn't get to say anything.


And we didn't expect to resign. I met with the board. There was a whole list of things that were charged by current and former leaders and there was an internal governance struggle and threats of legal action that it got very complicated. And a lot of it was anonymous through the internet so you don't know who is saying or doing what. And so I invited the board to do a full examination, interview anybody, anything, and we would submit to whatever verdict that they determined.


... When I think about eight weeks we met Friday and Saturday, October 10 and 11. I remember because the 11th was my birthday and so Grace and I were present with the board and they said: "We see in your history of leadership, less in more recent years but particularly in the past, pride, anger and a domineering leadership style." That would be the exact words they used.  "We don't see anything disqualifying. These are areas we want you to grow. We want you to leadership at the church soon." [emphasis added] They wanted to do some clean up internally. "We want you back on January 4 in the pulpit, give you time to heal, things to cool down, and for some changes to be made."


We agreed to that. I sent in a go-forward plan and then we went home to have birthday cake with the kids. I think it was on Monday night. I was in the bedroom. Grace was in the living room. And so we told the board and told the kids, you know, we come back and ["will do"? garbled] preaching and try and love and serve and, and fix what was a struggling church and God had provided a way for us to do that as volunteers. And so our plan was to come back as volunteers.

42:10
And then on that Monday night I was in the bedroom, Grace was in the living room and he spoke to me and he spoke to her in a supernatural way that neither of anticipated or expected. Ah, and so Grace walked in and she said, "I feel like the Lord just spoke to me and said what we're supposed to do." and I said "I feel like the Lord spoke to me and said what we're supposed to do." It's not what we wanted; it's not what we agreed to; it's not what we've planned for. And so I asked her, "Well, what did the Lord say to you?" cuz I didn't wanna influence and she said, uh, she said we're [Grace Driscoll speaks but it's low and indistinct, Driscoll pauses a moment and is urged to continue by Houston] "The Lord revealed to me that , you know, a trap has been set, there's, there's no way, chance we can return to leadership" and I didn't know what that meant or what was going on at the time.  And I'm, I said, [garbled] "We need to resign". So this is not what we anticipated and a lot of people've thought, you know, "maybe he's another plan" but we didn't. We didn't know what we were doing.


And Grace fell to the floor and she was just sobbing uncontrollably and I'd never seen my wife like that. She was devastated. So we prayed and slept on it and decided we would make sure we got this right. Talked to pastors, those that we trust and sent in our resignation then on, it would have been Tuesday. ... [emphasis added]

 

Sutton Turner has gone on record a number of times regarding the former Mars Hill and I’ve looked at that in some detail in the past.

https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/search/label/2020%20interviews%20on%20the%20late%20Mars%20Hill

In early 2022 Turner posted notes from the 2014 investigation. 

https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2022/01/sutton-turner-posts-notes-from-2014.html

https://suttonturner.com/blog/f/investigating-the-formal-charges-mark-driscollmars-hill-church

 

  • BOE Meeting on Thursday, September 25, 2014 (Debrief on the meeting with Driscoll)
    • BOE2: I think that there are root sins and fruit of sins, and in this, what we are tasked with, is to determine what has taken place, but what are the patterns and historical documented eyewitness patterns that have been seen.  I feel as though we have done a good job identifying what took place, and we need to step back and look at everything, and the story that it adds up to.
      My impressions from the meeting with Mark was that there were things that were encouraging, and very discouraging.  I was encouraged that he is getting counseling, and that he hasn’t quit, or given up.  And his heart and love for the church is clear.
      I was discouraged in that, he had to make sure that we understood that we didn’t have authority over him, and had no authority to speak into his life.  I was discouraged in the multiple comments that spoke about, well, this might be arrogant, but I’m going to say it anyways, because it’s true.[emphasis added]
      My takeaway is, the surface sins of anger, dominance, etc. these are surface things, and the deeper heart level is pride and arrogance, fear & control.  One of the things that was most alarming, was Mark blame shifting and saying that he had to do stuff, because of the situation he was in.  This wasn’t true.  If he would have loved the men and led them in love, the men would have followed him in love…but he doesn’t see that this is true.  I can understand how and why he is hurting, but this still does not negate that there was a lot of blame shifting and justification, and that was discouraging. 
    • BOE8:  I can’t disagree with anything that you said.
    • BOE7:  I don’t think it would be loving to the church or to Mark for him to jump back into the pulpit in 3 weeks. 
    • BOE8:  The last update that I gave Dave and Sutton was that it was not going to be an all-clear outcome.  It was a few weeks back, but I told them that it wasn’t looking like it was permanently disqualifying.
    • BOE3:  As I look back over my whole time here, he has either removed everyone he has ever been subject to, or they have left. [emphasis added] Going forward…it is simply a biblically untenable position for Mark to believe that he cannot submit to elders.  1 Timothy 3 and 5 are not separable. 
    • BOE2:  In our meeting with Mark we saw paranoia, blame shifting, arrogance at times, and we saw these things…minimal expressions of these things, but we saw the deeper heart stuff.  Going forward, if Mark does not change, then MHC will not be healthy, and I don’t believe that Mark is healthy currently. [emphasis added]
    • BOE2: The fact that this board is having to say that we may be destroyed, and our relationship with Mark could be destroyed….it is insane.  Our pastor should be safe.  We should know that about our pastor.  And until we know that…Mark is not ready to lead the church.  I look to a day when there is a culture of love that surrounds Mark.  The BOO needs to understand how the BOE feels in this process.  We are even concerned, so the BOO and us can change our culture.  If we restore Mark, it will require all of us to change together.

I have quoted extravagantly from sources thus far and am not going to change gears.  This next tract of citation culminates in something that clarified an earlier report that there was some kind of tension between the Board of Overseers and the Board of Elders investigating Driscoll in 2014.  Keep in mind that these dates match up with the timeline Mark and Grace Driscoll have conveyed in the earlier cited accounts:

  • Friday, October 10, 2014 morning BOO meets to plan a meeting with Mark and Grace (no notes)
  • Friday, October 10, 2014 4pm BOO meets with Mark and Grace (no notes)
  • Saturday, October 11, 2014 8:30 BOO meets with Mark and Grace (no notes)
  • Sunday, October 12, 2014 (Dave Bruskas)
    • Call with BOO member revealing conditions of Mark’s restoration plan
    • Call with BOE8 to discuss the conditions of Mark’s restoration plan
    • Call with Mark Driscoll to review his perspective of the restoration plan
  • BOE & BOO Monday, October 13, 2014
    • BOO member:  The BOO met with Pastor Mark & Grace from 4:00pm into the evening on Friday, and met at 8:30 to noon on Saturday.
      We didn’t talk about next steps until Saturday.  We focused on how the investigation concluded.
      We approached Mark not from the standpoint of what the interviewers said, but what we had experienced.  We pointed out instances where we had seen him act domineering, arrogant, or quick-tempered.
      It was sobering, heavy.  The BOO guys had planned out the structure of the meeting, and knew it was going to be uncomfortable.
      Mark was listening carefully, taking notes.  There was a point where the BOO member was trying to describe a reason for Mark not to be in the pulpit, and I compared it to an alcoholic wanting to get clean not serving as a bartender.
      Mark snapped back harshly and immediately, and it was the “I don’t agree with that, don’t do it again” instance.
      The BOO had prepped for this uncomfortable moment, and the conversation went south for 20 minutes, and I called a time out, and we called him out.
      We began to call a blind spot a blindside, because it was a little bigger than we thought.
      The encouraging part is that he listened to us carefully, and he listens to Grace.
      They have been working on this at their home for 8 years.  He has softened that approach at home…and now we need to get him to expand that circle to include the greater church.
      After that, the general tone of the conversation turned quite hopeful. 
    • BOO Member:  Early Saturday morning, we started with 2 questions:
      • I want each to tell the others about what occurred Friday night.
      • What are our immediate next steps?
    • BOO Member:  As we went around the room, there was great sharing.  One of the things that the BOO saw was when these issues happen, Mark needs to instinctively say that he is sorry.  That will be a sign to all of us that he is making progress.  He didn’t do that Friday night.
      Mark prayed, and after the prayer, Grace was whispering in his ear, and Mark said that he was sorry for the night before.  He took his cue from his wife, but he did the right thing.
    • BOO member: Yes, on Saturday, BOE8 had summarized the 3 hour interview that you guys did, and he began to read the list of things that Mark said, and described how it was superior.  Mark said that he received it.  Grace was shocked.
      There is a ton of work to do with Mark for him to get where he needs to get to.
    • BOO member:  At the end of it, the BOO is not ok for him to be back in leadership. 
    • BOO member:  We as a BOO have a responsibility to see that the entity is healthy and continues financially, and so we need to walk the tricky line of Mark needing to be out of leadership, and getting counseling.  What we are pursuing is a 4-6 month temporary leadership team made up of some older men, known and respected by Mark, one a shepherd type, and the other more of a financial administrator type leader.  Both of these men will do repeatedly with Mark what we did Friday night.
      We still believe that Mark will be restored to his preaching role, but going forward, one guy can’t be the sole driver with everything.  We hope to model with these two temporary leaders.
    • BOO member:  Statement from BOO –  BOO1 cooked up the first draft, the other men weighed into it, and it has been read to Mark & Grace.  When we read it to Mark, the weight was seen on his face. 
    • BOE7:  The date will be a struggle for some men, but it clearly says that Jan 4th is his return date on the assumption of growth and change.  If we are still looking at the same guy, then he is not back in January.  We are not putting the same guy back in January.
      Secondly, the part about the date, I understand it being a hopeful date…maybe language of being “on probation” as an elder.  The letter missed the weightiness by a mile.  
    • BOE1:  It is frustrating that you are not talking about names…it is frustrating that it isn’t forthright.  But we as a BOE want to have a say in this, and there is no say in it.  The letter, the overstatement of many things, and I would have great difficulty signing this in my conscience.  It sucks that this is so far off the mark, that it puts us in a bad position.
      I think the practicalities of Mark’s housing allowance are inconsequential, and to keep him on as an elder because it is financially more sustainable does not ring true.  That is a poor reason to remove him from eldership. 
    • BOE2:  I could not sign the statement in its current form either.  I am really struggling with Mark having a date.  The fact that he ripped your head off, and did not apologize on his own, but Grace had to make him do it.  I don’t see how it is possible.  I don’t think you men see that everyone is on the fence, and if we throw out another date, it makes people be in the fence until Jan 4th…and to the body and to me personally, it does not have the kind of weight that a true elder would say this is sin.  I hear the commitment to that from you in your voice and this conversation, and I am encouraged by this…but a statement or letter that does not include that, does not lead to this in the body.
    • BOE4: One of the things that I am struggling with, is, if this is the public rebuke, this does not meet the standard of rebuking in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.  The weight of the letter does not come close to this, I am not looking to drag Mark through the mud, but something much more weighty or pastoral has to be done.
    • BOE4: I feel that we have taken a step back, and I ache about this.  The letter appears heavily PR’d, and God-forbid, I don’t want the church to feel this way, when they already expect that.
    • BOE6:   I would also caveat that this letter sounds like a PR statement, and my heart and prayer is that we would openly and candidly repent of not only Mark’s sins, but our sins, that this has continued to happen, and we have seen a gutting of this church, because we have made statements that were PR oriented, instead of to God.  If I were to hear this as one of the members of MHC, I would hear this as a PR statement. 
    • BOE3:   I feel like there are a number of things that are hard in this.  I am not going to try to say this was expressly, mutually agreed upon, but going back to the slides that outlined this process…we would present findings, make a recommendation, the BOO would come back to us with what they think, and then with a heart for as much unanimity as possible…and this feels completely violated.  We felt heard, and we’ve heard BOE8’s heart, as he’s wearing 2 jerseys, but in our other calls, we didn’t get much of anything from BOO member or the other 2 BOO members, on where you men were lining up, and I was ok to let that go…but you have now put us in a position, where instead of striving for as much unity, you have put us at odds with you, you have made a statement that went to the PR guy before it came to us.  I am not trying to impugn anyone’s motives, but the bottom line is we are cut out, and and without significant revisions, I have swallowed so much in the name of unity…and I am not sure how much I will swallow for this.  I want to be open to other things, but a few months with a date on the end, having him remain as an elder…I simply cannot and won’t defend that.
    • BOE3:  Mark is not qualified to be an elder today.  Time out is indefinite, and unless his eldership is suspended, I cannot get behind it, in the name of unity or anything else.  The bottom line is, it feels this way, I don’t impugn your guys’ motives, but this is where I am at.
    • BOE2:  I really appreciate the BOO, but if the BOO does not see Mark as disqualified, and we do see him as disqualified, how is that elder supposed to support the statement of the BOO?  How are they supposed to lead in this?  If you men have the authority to do whatever you choose to do, and you don’t see him as disqualified, and you are going to remove further authority from elders? 
    • BOO member:   I hear that.  You men want to proceed today as if Mark is never coming back, therefore you can tell your people that we are moving forward under the assumption that he may never come back.  Our giving and attendance need to get up to where they are at.  If he comes back, it is awesome, but if not, we know where we are.
    • BOE as a group: Yes.

At length the notes converge with what we’ve seen already about Mark Driscoll’s resignation:

·         Communication Meeting on October 14 morning with Dave, BOO member, (Staff Member), and Mark DeMoss (Mark’s PR guy)

o    We did discuss the impasse between the BOE and BOO there. 

·         Mark releases a coordinated statement through the media that he has resigned from Mars Hill Church, October 14, 2014. https://religionnews.com/2014/10/15/exclusive-mark-driscolls-resignation-letter-to-mars-hill-church/

·         BofAA release statement after Driscoll resigns https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2014/10/15/mark-driscoll-resigns-from-mars-hill-church/

o    This was released by BofAA with great fear of litigation from Mark Driscoll, so the message was toned down.   

·         BOE & BOO Saturday, October 18, 2014 

o    BOO member:  Mark’s resignation was a surprise to all of us.  We asked him several times if he would reconsider his resignation.  Pastor Mark is not coming back.  Mark and Grace had a prayer time before they felt released from MHC. [emphasis added]

o    The statement read in many churches on October 19th but did not go public until 41 former elders released it on July 26th, 2021 Link 

o    BOO member:  A lot of people are going to want a lot of information.  This is nothing more than gossip. 

§  1st:  Re-organizing into different churches. 

1.    Re-org into each church choosing its own destiny

2.    Video campus of MHC, or self-supporting network church, or self-supporting church plant, fully independent.  For each one to do its own 501c3

§  2nd: I heard everyone talking about self-governance, each church should be able to afford this, if they do it.  Maybe consider some central shared HR, Finance resources.

§  3rd:  Dave Bruskas will choose his preferred role and location.  January 1, he ends up where he ends up. 

§  4th:  Current BofAA transitioning out by 2015.  The sooner the better. 

 

Thanks to Sutton Turner for publishing the notes from the investigation. What becomes impossible to avoid is the observation that not only are there no indications the Board of Overseers confirmed Mark Driscoll’s claim that God audibly released him and his wife from ministry at Mars Hill, there isn’t even a documentary claim to the effect that Mark Driscoll ever even talked about God saying anything to him or his wife about being “released” or about “a trap has been set”.

 

At this point it is relatively easy to find the 2021 account from former Mars Hill elders to Christianity Today that Mark Driscoll was, in their estimation not repentant and not fit for ministry.

 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/july/mars-hill-elders-letter-mark-driscoll-pastor-resign-trinity.html

https://www.christianitytoday.com/assets/22736.pdf

https://www.christianitytoday.com/assets/22730.pdf

 

What we have seen from the 2014 investigation notes Sutton Turner published is that not even the Board of Overseers felt comfortable with the prospect of Mark Driscoll jumping back into the pulpit at Mars Hill.  But in Pray Like Jesus, Driscoll’s account has it that:

 

After months of prayer God spoke to us both audibly at the same time. Grace was in the kitchen, and I was in the bed-room on the opposite end of our home. Grace came running in the bedroom to tell me that God had spoken to her, and stunned, I told her that at the same moment He spoke to her, he also spoke to me. He told us both we were “released”.

 

This word from the Lord led to the biggest faith step of our lives as we did not know what was next but knew that a season of our life had ended and we needed to step out together, in faith. In submission to the pastoral authority over us, we asked our overseers whether they agreed this was a word from God. They confirmed what God said.

 

Retroactively, Mark Driscoll remembers telling his Board of Overseers “God said I’m released” and the Board of Overseers said “Sure, go in peace, bro.” There is literally nothing so far that has been published in the last eight years from anyone who isn’t Mark Driscoll that can back up the Pray Like Jesus account.

 

POSTSCRIPT 1-25-2023 5:41PM


It's necessary to add more accounts to the above. 


First, we should bear in mind Mark Driscoll's claim to Carey Nieuwhof that Mars Hill collapsed due to "unbiblical energy" connected to a conflict over LGBTQ issues.  

https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2020/10/2020-interviews-on-late-mars-hill-part_86.html#more

https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2021/09/once-again-we-must-report-drawing-upon.html


and it was plugged at Facebook
and Twitter 
But now ...

SORRY! THAT PAGE DOESN'T SEEM TO EXIST.

As noted in the past, the old transcript is actually still accessible so ... 


March 13, 2020 

28:00 (page 9 of 16 in the transcript) 

And I mean, you kind of casually breezed through death threats, bullet proof vests, the whole deal. How do you recover from that? 

Mark Driscoll:  Yeah, it wasn't just at the end. It was most of my time. I mean it was well over a decade of ... I mean we moved many times for safety issues. Address to the house would be posted online. Critics would show up. They tended to post the address when I was out of town and Grace and the kids were home alone.

 We had a safe room built at one house. We have had people arrested on property. Rocks thrown at the kids playing in the yard. Media for gotcha. I mean, just a little bit of ... It was crazy for a very long time.

 And so as a family we had security protocols. We had to live a very, very, very careful life. And so the kids ... They couldn't go for bike rides, they couldn't go for walks alone. They couldn't just walk around church alone. We were on high alert. And one of the things that's really been great I think with the move is, the kids just get to do normal. They can go to the store, they can go for a walk, they can ride a skateboard, they can just get to do normal. And that's been really incredible. And the kids really like having a little bit more freedom for sure.

 Carey Nieuwhof: (29:30)  Can I ask, was the opposition from the church, like Christians? I mean, the Capital C church or was it more from other people in Seattle or was it widely distributed?

 Mark Driscoll: (about 29:47)  You know, 18 years things ebb and flow, different issues blow up and different groups have an issue. And some of that I'm not going to say I'm Jesus and I've never done anything wrong you know.

 Carey Nieuwhof:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 Mark Driscoll: And so, but in that it just kind of ebbed and flowed but most of it was internal and it was theological in nature around the issue of transgender-ism and same sex marriage and a lot of what was the energy behind it was ultimately against bible teaching. [emphasis added]

So the demise of Mars Hill had nothing to do with any investigation into charges regarding Mark Driscoll's character and conduct?  It was an internal theological conflict about transgenderism and same-sex marriage?  As we have seen literally no primary source among the men who served on the Mars Hill Board of Overseers as part of the Board of Advisors and Accountability ever hinted at this even once and accounts of the findings of the Board of Elders tasked with investigating Mark Driscoll found him wanting qualifications for continued ministry.

Second, Justin Dean, in a Twitter exchange with Warren Throckmorton added more details regarding the restoration plan the Board of Overseers reportedly drafted for Mark Driscoll in 2014:

archive.today webpage capture

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22 Jun 2019 20:30:51 UTC

Did you see a final report which said he was qualified to preach? He was rebuked as being in persistent sin and was supposed to enter a restoration plan but resigned before he did so.
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like

 Justin Dean‏ @justinjdean

Replying to @wthrockmorton @dawirice and 4 others
Yes the report said he was not disqualified as an elder but was found to have a pattern of arrogance so they wanted him to step down from management, get help for the arrogance, but still be the preaching pastor... then the 15 lead pastors would be in charge.
1:25 PM - 22 Jun 2019
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes


Replying to @wthrockmorton @dawirice and 4 others
Yes he said he and Grace prayed in separate rooms and both felt God wanted him to quit so he did. He was never found unqualified. They wanted him to continue preaching, but not lead the church or staff. Had he stayed he would have been removed from managing.

1:16 PM - 22 Jun 2019


Yes the report said he was not disqualified as an elder but was found to have a pattern of arrogance so they wanted him to step down from management, get help for the arrogance, but still be the preaching pastor... then the 15 lead pastors would be in charge.

1:25 PM - 22 Jun 2019

Now that Sutton Turner has published notes from the 2014 investigation it seems the Board of Overseers refused to accept the Board of Elders conclusion that Mark Driscoll was not fit for ministry. We have also seen that Mark Driscoll's account to Brian Houston was he was offered a restoration plan and he said he accepted it before God audibly "released" him and his wife because "a trap has been set".

For those who didn't catch the Sheila Walsh/Mark Driscoll discussion ... keep this post from Mark Driscoll as William Wallace II in mind first:
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2014/08/william-wallace-ii-and-pussified-nation.html
William Wallace II  Member 
posted 01-06-2001 09:01 PM     
William Wallace II     

I love to fight. It's good to fight. Fighting is what we used to do before we all became pussified. Fighting is a lost art form. Fighting is cheaper than medication and more effective than counseling. Fighting always wins over compromise. Fighting is what passionate people do instead of killing. So log on, fight away. And if you are reading this and talking to yourself log on you coward and get in the ring.
So when Robison asked Mark Driscoll repeatedly:
https://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2017/04/on-walshrobison-interview-with-mark_99.html
Randy: Why are they so mad at you?

Mark: Well, it was from one of the police officers, I don't know if he was at Seattle S.P.D. but for high alert Sundays where there was protest or there was danger. And the kids knew on those days come in and out with police escort.

Randy: Why? Why were they so mad at you?

Mark: You know I'm a really lovely guy so I just don't know.
Ah, but when he was talking to Carey Nieuwhof years later he did know, it seems.

Then we have what Driscoll told Larry Osborne 

uploaded November 16, 2016

092816 400 Gathering Session 1


50:10
Driscoll: um, I met with thirtysome former leaders that would be sort of in the unhappy, disgruntled, frustrated category and almost every single conversation post my-resignation and transition, it's almost like it was a script, and they said the same thing which, I don't know if they were processing together, it's just where it ended up.  And it was, "I can't forgive you because you're not repentant."

And I'd say, "Well, I apologized" and I would give the dates that I apologized with them, one, on multiple occasions I said, "Did I ever do that again?"

"No, you didn't not but I can't forgive you because you've not repented."

I asked, "Well, what does repentance look like?"

50:54
And over and over and over it was repentance--forgiveness, rather--forgiveness is at the END of the process, not the beginning and then I will JUDGE you and I can't forgive you until you're repentant and that means that I kind of sit in a God seat, and I need to give it a lot of time, and I can't forgive you until I believe you have come to full repentance as I see it. [emphasis added]
Now we know that 41 former pastors from Mars Hill have since regarded Mark Driscoll as unrepentant.  Driscoll can say whatever he likes but his 2021 account in Pray Like Jesus that the Board of Overseers agreed with him that he and Grace heard God audibly "release" them has not been verified by any previous account since 2014, even when we consult published and spoken statements by members of the Board of Overseers and, paradoxically, Mark Driscoll himself.  Fyodor Dostoevsky famously warned that a man who lies to himself soon becomes incapable of telling the truth to others.  

One of the slippery elements of Driscoll's account and the argumentation he presented within it is that he fixated on individual behaviors with individuals.  If he said or did X to A but never did it again then, repentance, right?  But if he said or did X to A, and then B, and then C, and then D, and on down the line but he never repeatedly did X to any one of them or just did or said a whole lot of X to Y, W, and Z before they were canned then what's the problem?  How would he need to "repent" of simply having done X to so many people across so many times and places if he constrained all discussion of his conduct and speech to the standard of repeat offenses?  That might be, if I may suggest so, one of the forms of casuistry he's used to let himself off the hook as having been "repentant" in spite of the cumulative testimony regarding his actions and conduct from former staff, members and pastors. 

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