Andrew Lisi was involved at Mars Hill Church from December 2011 to March, 2014. During that time, he was an Executive Pastor, Community Groups Pastor and Biblical Living Pastor at three different campus churches (Downtown, U-District and West Seatte). When Andrew resigned, allegations of pastoral abuse and wrongdoing had started to surface against lead pastor Mark Driscoll.
Andrew recently reached out to me with a letter of concern he wrote to the Executive Elders of Mars Hill Church at the time of his resignation (Dave Bruskas, Sutton Turner, and Mark Driscoll). The letter expressed many of his reasons for leaving. He contacted me in response to the recent reports from former members of The Trinity Church in Phoenix. Andrew sees The Trinity Church reports as history repeating itself. He also hopes to raise awareness about the fact that the investigating board of elders at Mars Hill declared Mark Driscoll to be disqualified from ministry in 2014. Driscoll first agreed to undergo a restoration process but abruptly quit before he started it. ...
The polity
I do not agree with the polity. I have searched the bylaws to get some help as to how the Full Council functions. The power of elders is very limited, in terms of voting and making decisions. I can understand that, to a degree, but I question the wisdom in it. There is nothing in the bylaws regarding how the elders are informed about the dealings of the Executive Elders or the BoAA. As I ask questions of polity, I see that I am much more aligned with, at most, a modified form of plurality that keeps all elders informed of important matters and allows them to have some insight into each other’s lives, especially those who are leading them. This is a form of modeling for our people and fosters an environment of trust and unity, a unity that can’t be dictated from higher authority figures. Elders at Mars Hill have no idea what is going on in Mark’s life and what is often communicated by him to elders is “I’m great. Grace is great. Kids are great. Life is good. Mars Hill will have a huge year. It will be the most fruitful year. We have the best team assembled to make this happened.” What is the intention behind those words? To inform us? The blanket statements inform us of nothing. To assure us? Why would we need blanket statements to assure us? To be honest? I do not see this as helpful to anyone. Even if it is true, these glimpses into his life models no level of transparency, vulnerability, or repentance when needed. And while we may not catch the public flak Mark gets, both for the gospel and for his own character, the elders of Mars Hill are implicated with him. So sadly, the elders have no voice into his life, but are guilty by association for all the public stunts that hinder the advancement of the gospel along with any controversy that is raised (and I do not mean controversy surrounding real gospel issues).
I believe that the EE, and especially Mark, given that his personal name carries much more weight than the name of Mars Hill Church, should submit themselves for accountability first to the Full Council at Mars Hill and secondly submit themselves to the external BoAA. In doing this, the elders of Mars Hill have more skin in the game and the BoAA is still there for accountability and advisement on issues that cannot be handled internally with active elders who are actually involved in Mars Hill Church.
Additionally, I believe that one of the most important functions of the EE is to invest in the elders intentionally, both paid and unpaid. I would encourage monthly or bi-monthly Full Council meetings (shorter, around an hour over VC), and having elders at local churches to prepare for the meetings ahead of time, and to collaborate more effectively via VC. I would encourage visits to the churches throughout the year, just to meet with the elders. And, perhaps most importantly, is to inform elders before the rest of the church – and the public – of what is happening. It is inexcusable that elders learn about potential plagiarism issues and the ResultSource issue through journalists and breaking news.
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I mentioned in a VC call when I was an XP, “we care much more about the churches that don’t exist than the ones that do.” I stand by that. Even in the Full Council meeting in February, there was a call to focus on the 35,000 who aren’t a part of the church and a downplaying of the 15,000 that are. While I very much care about those who aren’t Christians or in churches, I think the best way we get there is by strong discipleship of those who are – caring well, shepherding well, loving well, training well. Many may think the best “brand” for Mars Hill is Mark Driscoll – his influence and platform are surely strong. But the way to 50,000 isn’t by building bigger buildings and increasing his platform, but loving the leaders in our church well, allowing their voices and actions to serve as the brand for the church and the example of Christ to the nations. This is just basic discipleship. From a marketplace standpoint, that’s just savvy marketing – your customers are your most important brand asset. Instead, there is much distrust among the body; the turnover of longterm staff is telling; dozens of elders have left the church in the last two years; and I suspect, if we were to audit our churches, we would see that the longevity of involvement with Mars Hill is on the decline, meaning that that backdoor isn’t so much the new people, but those who’ve invested years in the church and are just finished.
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No repentance for son-in-law statementsBack in May of last year, I was a part of the Lead Pastor Residency final interviews. On that day, Pastor Mark spoke strongly about how each of the churches are his daughters and the Lead Pastors would be like sons-in-law. He said that if you are a good son-in-law, you will be taken care of, but if not, there would be dangerous consequences. The way he spoke sounded as if each church, and thus all of Mars Hill, is his and that if any Lead Pastor left for any reason they would be betraying the church. In all honesty I wish I had the courage to talk to Mark directly about it that day as I was very jarred and angry that kind of language could be used and the view that this is his church was being presented to a bunch of new guys who were looking to serve Jesus faithfully here. It was very unsettling to me, so I spoke with Pastor Dave about it. He said that it was a bit strong and to Mark’s credit I haven’t heard anything like that since. But the problem is he never once, to my knowledge, owned that what he said revealed a tendency to be puffed up and think he’s built Mars Hill (which has admitted in general in the past), that Mars Hill is his baby, and that he used bully scare tactics to ensure that future Lead Pastors were put in their place before they ever got here.No repentance for Strange Fire or plagiarismI voiced my concerns in high volume to several leaders in the church regarding the Strange Fire shenanigans and the plagiarism issues that continue to this day. David Fairchild was helpful regarding my concerns and how they relate to eldership. In doing so, he challenged my understanding of eldership at a church as complex as Mars Hill. I don’t agree with the structure. It follows the concept of “borrowed trust” – that because David trusts the EE and I trust David, I should trust the EE. The problem is that it is organizational trust established through the structure unilaterally; it is not relational trust built mutually over time. The trust has eroded organizationally through actions such as Strange Fire and plagiarism. The questions and concerns are never really addressed, so the trust has disappeared. Relational trust can’t be built given the structure and pace at Mars Hill. This is not to say it could not be built, but trusting a person and trusting their leadership are two different things as well. So no matter how much David may trust the EE, in my situation, I can’t trust the EE in leading the church for the reasons mentioned here. And the problem is there is no place, except through my Lead Pastor, where I can truly voice my real, legitimate concerns. I admit that I have stronger desire for a plurality of eldership in which, in the least, elders of a large church are informed privately regarding the motives of public stunts (as with Strange Fire) or how to navigate serious charges raised by the media (as with the plagiarism). I see that as wise leadership and so I concede that I believe how the EE and other people involved is supremely unwise. I have shared more of my thoughts above.
if you want to get a sense for how badly the executive elders came off joining Driscoll for crashing The Strange Fire this post might help get you back to that moment. Bruskas and Turner talked with Warren Throckmorton last year and that was worth listening to and doing a lot of analytical writing about. That leads us, thematically to Lisi mentioning:
No repentance for ResultSourceI am deeply disheartened by the recent news of how Real Marriage got on the NYT Bestseller List. I arrived to work at Mars Hill right when the book was being released When it happened I was blown away and was sharing all about it on social media. I remember the buzz around the church. I have since gone back to look at what was being said at the time. On pastormark.tv Pastor Mark wrote that “we’re prayerfully hoping that this book will be a New York Times bestseller for Jesus’ fame...” I shared on Facebook & Twitter, “What’s the top selling book on Amazon right now? Might surprise you” with a link to the book. Instead, we learned now that there was a company hired that specializes in gaming the system to ensure that books who hire them get on the right kinds of lists. So while praying may be happening, paying over $200,000 to use a shady group was surely happening. I personally feel betrayed, misled, and lied to. Justin Dean’s initial comment did not help matters. Now I’m aware that many people such as politicians use this kind of method, but the group exists to work around the structures in place to ensure quality on those lists. Those are two red flags right there -- being associated with political methodology and highly speculative practices. Neither to me puts Pastor Mark and the EE in a place of being “above reproach” or being thought well of by outsiders. I believe Jared Wilson explains it out best in his post on The Gospel Coalition. He lays out five major concerns, but the first is the most important in my opinion. There he mentions dishonesty. It’s just plain dishonest to be talking about “praying” to be on the NYT Bestseller list using basic marketing practices or even innovative social media ones, while behind the door dropping a quarter of a million dollars on a company that guarantees you being on the list using shady practices. It’s unethical. And while it may be legal, it doesn’t make it right, just like getting drunk or having sex before marriage. What has come out from Mars Hill and Pastor Mark still shows that no one is taking ownership of the original decision. In his letter, Pastor Mark wrote “I am sorry I used this strategy.” How were the elders of Mars Hill never informed about it to begin with? How did no one raise any questions about it? And if the questions were raised, surely they were regarding what Pastor Mark now sees in retrospect. So what happened? Who made the call? How was the origin and purpose of the company not investigated? How did the contract not raise red flags? Again, there’s not enough transparency here with the elders. It diminishes trust. And when questions are asked, it’s considered insubordinate.
We've been on a semi-sabbatical here at Wenatchee The Hatchet but it's not for a lack of interest in writing. There's a few things simmering on back burners but we can get readers up to speed on a few interesting job openings that have popped up at the local brand. We can take them roughly in reverse chronological order.Executive Pastor-University District1 day ago... Pastor Sutton Turner, Executive Pastor and Executive Elder to Pastor Mark Driscoll has provided an insightful look into our perspective on the Executive Pastor role at Mars Hill Church. As the author of Invest Your Gifts for His Mission, he will discuss the principles from this book with top candidates for this position. So, we encourage all candidates to be prepared to complete our job application by first reading Invest Your Gifts for His Mission.So there's Turner's book to buy and read if you're interest in this position, which may have been vacant for quite some time.Andrew Lisi formerly had this positionlisted in screen captures via The Wayback Machine up through about May 3, 2013Lisi is currently pastor of Community Groups at Mars HIll West SEattle
Pastor Profile:
ANDREW LISI
Executive Pastor at Mars Hill U-District
So it might be of interest to regular and long-time readers, this wasn't a case where, as best I can recall, a resignation was leaked to me; it was a case where I connected some dots based on changes in sites. During the 2013 to 2014 period there were plenty of leaks. Throckmorton got probably most of them but I got wind of local campus resignations either through leaks or simply paying attention to the campus leadership rosters and then pointing out the obvious. Unfortunately, due to information silo-ing methods within Mars Hill people at one campus often didn't hear about personnel shake-ups at other campuses.
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