As has been noted here and elsewhere ...
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2015/03/justin-dean-what-i-did-was-wrong-i-am.html
Justin Dean published an apology stating that what he did was wrong and he was sorry. Exactly what he was saying he was sorry for has not yet been completely clear since on the one hand Dean denied having sold a list that Craig Gross has indicated he is fairly sure he actually did buy from Justin Dean. While the public apologies were nice, there's been this mystery as to how on earth the list was available for Dean to distribute to a couple of people (by his account) who then put the list up for sale. It isn't clear how Dean had possession of the asset of the list to begin with. In the not in the ordinary domain of business the people with the power to sell or distribute assets would be members of the Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability, which Dean has never been a member of, as best we can tell. And yet it would be helpful for the BoAA to clarify things, if that's possible, because since the formal dissolution was announced the only group that seems explicitly authorized to have let Justin Dean even have access to the list to begin with would be the current BoAA.
Then again, how long did Justin Dean have the list? Was it possible he had the list even before the dissolution was announced? It may not be relevant but it could be a variable to consider. Dean's apology from the more recent apology explicitly stated it would be illegal to use the list without permission from Mars Hill. But, at the risk of asking an obvious question, why? Why would it be illegal for people who bought a list to use it? Because the list was sold in a transaction that was not legal? If not, why not?
So, with all that introduction, Warren Throckmorton has some more information that can be considered. WtH will quote the most pertinent segments that stood out for those not in the habit of going over and reading the whole thing once linked.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/04/07/the-mars-hill-church-mailing-list-was-being-distributed-by-john-doe/
Not really, but that was the name given to register Churchleaderslist.com. You’ll remember that churchleaderslist.com was the website used to offer Mars Hill Church’s The Resurgence mailing list to the public. Churchleaderslist.com was pulled from the web and from twitter after it was learned that the list still belonged to Mars Hill Church. Craig Gross who purchased and used the list told Christianity Today that former Mars Hill Church spokesperson Justin Dean had sold him the list and then refunded the money after it became public knowledge that the list was still the property of Mars Hill Church.
The quick summary quotations would be:
The identity of the registrant of churchleaderslist.com was hidden via privacy shield supplied by a Whoisproxy.com Ltd. This is a common manner of shielding addresses and phone numbers from the public. However, such shielding is not supposed to be done for unethical or illegal purposes. Last week, I wrote the privacy company about the matter. I was informed that the privacy shield would be removed which it was earlier today. Here is the registration information now:
... and ...
John Doe? By law, information provided in the registration of a domain is supposed to be factual. However, I doubt John Doe residing at 1234 Doe in Beverly Hills is the real owner. According to a contact at Google, there is no additional underlying information available. A search of the domain history turns up nothing more of interest. From the beginning of March, when the domain was registered, the owner was protecting the identity of John Doe.
As it turns out, domainguy99@gmail.com may actually be a working email. A search for this email on Google reveals the email attached to a domain owned by Justin Dean since 2013 — churchcomm.com. If you place this address in the address line of your browser, you will be redirected to the website of Ministry Communicators Association, a non-profit founded by Dean. Dean has apparently changed the registration information since March 28 because one needs to go to the Google cache to find the domainguy99@gmail.com address. [emphasis added]
A commenter left the following:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/04/07/the-mars-hill-church-mailing-list-was-being-distributed-by-john-doe/#comment-1951615179
Justin Dean's, if you don't want to click below...
hois Record:Domain Name: CHURCHCOMM.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1824012583_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: www.enom.com
Updated Date: 2014-07-30T00:16:13.00Z
Creation Date: 2013-08-28T15:39:00.00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-08-28T15:39:47.00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@enom.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4252982646
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: ok
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: JUSTIN DEAN
Registrant Organization: DOXA MEDIA GROUP
Registrant Street: DOMAINS
Registrant City: BUFORD
Registrant State/Province: GA
Registrant Postal Code: 30518
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.6788294455
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: JUSTINJDEAN@GMAIL.COM
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: JUSTIN DEAN
Admin Organization: DOXA MEDIA GROUP
Admin Street: DOMAINS
Admin City: BUFORD
Admin State/Province: GA
Admin Postal Code: 30518
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.6788294455
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: JUSTINJDEAN@GMAIL.COM
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: JUSTIN DEAN
Tech Organization: DOXA MEDIA GROUP
Tech Street: DOMAINS
Tech City: BUFORD
Tech State/Province: GA
Tech Postal Code: 30518
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.6788294455
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: JUSTINJDEAN@GMAIL.COM
Name Server: DNS1.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
Name Server: DNS2.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
Name Server: DNS3.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
Name Server: DNS4.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
Name Server: DNS5.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
DNSSEC: unSigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-07-30T00:16:13.00Z
The data in this whois database is provided to you for information
purposes only, that is, to assist you in obtaining information about or
related to a domain name registration record. We make this information
available "as is," and do not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a
whois query, you agree that you will use this data only for lawful
purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: (1)
enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that stress or load
this whois database system providing you this information; or (2) allow,
enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited,
commercial advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic
mail, or by telephone. The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or
other use of this data is expressly prohibited without prior written
consent from us.
We reserve the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting
this query, you agree to abide by these terms.
Version 6.3 4/3/2002
Showing posts with label a list. Show all posts
Showing posts with label a list. Show all posts
Tuesday, April 07, 2015
Tuesday, March 31, 2015
Justin Dean, "What I Did Was Wrong-I Am Sorry"
http://justinjdean.com/what-i-did-was-wrong-i-am-sorry/
I want to be clear that what I did was wrong, and that I did not work in concert with or in cooperation with anyone else, including current or past employees of Mars Hill or Pastor Mark Driscoll. I operated on my own accord, without their knowledge, and without their authority. I exercised terrible judgment and I regret my decisions. I am hoping that by posting this the speculation around them will stop.
I neglected to think how my actions would affect the outstanding men and women who stayed behind at Mars Hill, some of them volunteers, who manage and protect the remaining assets as they wind down the organization. Nor did I realize how my actions would harm their families or their reputation. This was certainly not my intention, and I am deeply sorry for the trouble I have caused them.
Under no compulsion other than my conscience and the Holy Spirit, I have admitted in detail my wrong doing and repented to current Mars Hill leadership, and by God’s grace I have received their unconditional forgiveness. I am also very sorry to everyone on the email list and I please ask for your forgiveness as well. Please note that any further use of this list is forbidden and would be illegal without the permission of Mars Hill Church. [emphasis added]
A few things to consider here. If Mars Hill Church was dissolved at the end of 2014 then the corporation as it is now consists of just executive level leadership? But there aren't any executive pastors in place now, are there? Kerry Dodd's lately listed as the president and Caleb Walters may or may not still be secretary. Michael Van Skaik, Larry Osborne, Jon Phelps and Matt Rogers may still be on the Board of Advisors and Accountability but we can't be completely sure what its make-up is at the moment. Paul Tripp's resignation from the BoAA last year eventually produced a statement in which Tripp explained that he believed the BoAA was incapable of functioning in the purpose for which it was designed.
So Dean has apologized for something, although precisely what he apologized for could be clarified. Craig Gross' understanding was that Dean sold him a list, while Dean has indicated being party to a transaction by promoting it but not actually having sold the list. If that's the case then what is the company that set up churchleaderslist.com? Why was the url based in New Zealand, per Craig Gross' report?
From the cache of the Church Leaders List page
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=www.churchleaderslist.com%2f&d=4547761909733441&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=G9mB-8bD6ncUFTesKoYfGXyB7zrT0Ci0
Frequently Asked Questions
How do I use the list?
The list you purchase will be delivered in .CSV file format, which you can open using Microsoft Excel, Apple Numbers or many text editors. This format is compatible with every email marketing platform such as Mailchimp, Aweber, Constant Contact, Vertical Response, and others. Simply import the list into your email system and you’ll be able to setup an email campaign within minutes. You are responsible for sending emails in accordance with CAN-SPAM laws, such as including an unsubscribe link in every email. We recommend using an email marketing platform such as any of the ones listed above. Our favorite is Mailchimp, which allows you to send up to 2000 emails a month for free.
What is your refund policy?
Once you make a purchase you’ll immediately receive a download of the list in CSV file format. Because of the digital nature of this product we cannot offer refunds. [emphasis added]
How did people join this list?
Everyone on this list opted in through one or more church or Christian leadership websites managed by our partners and affiliates.
How many times can I use the list?
You can use the list as many times as you’d like. Once you download the list, it’s yours to keep and use. [emphasis added]
How up to date is this list?
This is one of the most up-to-date lists of Christians and Church Leaders. We purge bounced emails and update the list often as people change jobs and churches.
And yet by Craig Gross' account he did get a refund from somebody. The site looks like it stated that once you've purchased the list you could use the list as many times as you'd like. So if it turns out it's illegal to use the list in any capacity moving forward ... why did the entity that set up the website go so far as to say that once bought the list could be recycled endlessly?
So if Justin Dean distributed a list per this statement from last week:
http://justinjdean.com/craig-gross-the-real-story/
by justinjdean | Mar 24, 2015 | Blog |
Then it would seem he would know to whom he distributed a list of names to that couple of people who may have put the list up for sale yet were not authorized to do so. The simplest and most compelling thing Dean could do at this point is explain who he distributed the list to if he wasn't the person who sold the list himself.
Would the current Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability weigh in on this issue? After all, the by-laws would indicate that part of their powers and responsibilities include distribution and sale of assets held by Mars Hill not in the ordinary line of business. This would seem like precisely the kind of scenario in which the BoAA should be most involved and vocal. But who exactly is even on the BoAA at this point?
So if Justin Dean did not work in ccoperation with anyone else then did he even distribute a list to other parties who then put the list up for sale? Because if he didn't even do that then he's the only one who could have been in a position to sell a list. He still hasn't explained exactly what it was he did and which parties other than himself were involved, per his statement from last week. He's sorry and that's commendable to say if we'd have a significantly clearer idea what he did that he's sorry for with respect to the list.
But here's the thing, based on how the bylaws of Mars Hill read with respect to the powers of the BoAA Justin Dean shouldn't even have had any access to the list as an asset of Mars Hill to begin with, right? He's not employed by Mars Hill any more, is he? And if he was in possession of assets the only entity with the authority to even entrust material to him would be the BoAA. Can the BoAA at least clarify that they did or did not, in fact, give Justin Dean any assets to begin with? If Dean's taking full responsibility for something he's done, okay, but it still seems like something he couldn't even have done if he was not entrusted with something by people at Mars Hill. And the thing is, based on the by-laws of Mars Hill the only people who legally count as members would be elders. But the corporation's dissolved/dissolving so who would the current MH elders be then?
Well, Dean has a chance to clarify what happened. And if he could get around to fielding the question of what conversation he asserted The Stranger fabricated in their publishing that would be helpful, too. And maybe he could even field why he thought it was appropriate to mention some kind of tax lien thing connected to Rob Smith as if it were relevant to anything at all. Dean doesn't seem to have realized that by telling Rob Smith he hadn't managed to form a suit for more than a year that this could retroactively cast doubt on the veracity of "we're not entirely sure who they are".
and there's still this from last week.
If selling the list was not authorized then it was illegal, wasn't it? That would make it all the more important to establish who really sold that list. Justin Dean's indicated last week he distributed a list to a couple of people. Well, that's a short list. Who? If it turns out he didn't distribute a list to a couple of people and acted alone, as seems indicated by the new apology, then this vitiates the truthfulness of last week's statement a bit.
The matter isn't about speculation but that some very, very basic questions have still not gotten unequivocal answers. Who sold the list by way of Church Leaders List? Why was the company url based in New Zealand, per Craig Gross's account. If Justin Dean distributed a list to a couple of people who were they? If he acted alone that doesn't mean he didn't distribute the list to others, after all.
That Dean is sorry is certainly a thing for him to share. But the sale and promotion of the list was also done through the Ministry Communicators Association, which is more than just the individual Justin Dean.
POSTSCRIPT
04-01-2015
0643A
And over at I4J's comment/discussion thread, looks like Justin Dean has apologized to Rob Smith for having brought up the tax lien stuff, too.
Justin Dean · Top Commenter · Buford, Georgia
POSTSCRIPT 04-02-2015
1056PM
it may have been sparing on the details of precisely what happened but this apology from Dean was more unequivocal in its way than just about anything said by anyone in the history of MH leadership in social and mass media. And the apology to Smith was unequivocal. So that's commendable.
What I Did Was Wrong – I Am Sorry
Because there has been much speculation about this online, and people I love have been hurt because of my actions, I wanted to provide some further clarity regarding my earlier blog post about the list of church leaders.I want to be clear that what I did was wrong, and that I did not work in concert with or in cooperation with anyone else, including current or past employees of Mars Hill or Pastor Mark Driscoll. I operated on my own accord, without their knowledge, and without their authority. I exercised terrible judgment and I regret my decisions. I am hoping that by posting this the speculation around them will stop.
I neglected to think how my actions would affect the outstanding men and women who stayed behind at Mars Hill, some of them volunteers, who manage and protect the remaining assets as they wind down the organization. Nor did I realize how my actions would harm their families or their reputation. This was certainly not my intention, and I am deeply sorry for the trouble I have caused them.
Under no compulsion other than my conscience and the Holy Spirit, I have admitted in detail my wrong doing and repented to current Mars Hill leadership, and by God’s grace I have received their unconditional forgiveness. I am also very sorry to everyone on the email list and I please ask for your forgiveness as well. Please note that any further use of this list is forbidden and would be illegal without the permission of Mars Hill Church. [emphasis added]
A few things to consider here. If Mars Hill Church was dissolved at the end of 2014 then the corporation as it is now consists of just executive level leadership? But there aren't any executive pastors in place now, are there? Kerry Dodd's lately listed as the president and Caleb Walters may or may not still be secretary. Michael Van Skaik, Larry Osborne, Jon Phelps and Matt Rogers may still be on the Board of Advisors and Accountability but we can't be completely sure what its make-up is at the moment. Paul Tripp's resignation from the BoAA last year eventually produced a statement in which Tripp explained that he believed the BoAA was incapable of functioning in the purpose for which it was designed.
So Dean has apologized for something, although precisely what he apologized for could be clarified. Craig Gross' understanding was that Dean sold him a list, while Dean has indicated being party to a transaction by promoting it but not actually having sold the list. If that's the case then what is the company that set up churchleaderslist.com? Why was the url based in New Zealand, per Craig Gross' report?
From the cache of the Church Leaders List page
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=www.churchleaderslist.com%2f&d=4547761909733441&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=G9mB-8bD6ncUFTesKoYfGXyB7zrT0Ci0
Frequently Asked Questions
How do I use the list?
The list you purchase will be delivered in .CSV file format, which you can open using Microsoft Excel, Apple Numbers or many text editors. This format is compatible with every email marketing platform such as Mailchimp, Aweber, Constant Contact, Vertical Response, and others. Simply import the list into your email system and you’ll be able to setup an email campaign within minutes. You are responsible for sending emails in accordance with CAN-SPAM laws, such as including an unsubscribe link in every email. We recommend using an email marketing platform such as any of the ones listed above. Our favorite is Mailchimp, which allows you to send up to 2000 emails a month for free.
What is your refund policy?
Once you make a purchase you’ll immediately receive a download of the list in CSV file format. Because of the digital nature of this product we cannot offer refunds. [emphasis added]
How did people join this list?
Everyone on this list opted in through one or more church or Christian leadership websites managed by our partners and affiliates.
How many times can I use the list?
You can use the list as many times as you’d like. Once you download the list, it’s yours to keep and use. [emphasis added]
How up to date is this list?
This is one of the most up-to-date lists of Christians and Church Leaders. We purge bounced emails and update the list often as people change jobs and churches.
And yet by Craig Gross' account he did get a refund from somebody. The site looks like it stated that once you've purchased the list you could use the list as many times as you'd like. So if it turns out it's illegal to use the list in any capacity moving forward ... why did the entity that set up the website go so far as to say that once bought the list could be recycled endlessly?
So if Justin Dean distributed a list per this statement from last week:
http://justinjdean.com/craig-gross-the-real-story/
by justinjdean | Mar 24, 2015 | Blog |
I was involved in distributing a list of church leaders to a couple of people who I assumed would only use it to spread the gospel and bible teaching.
Then it would seem he would know to whom he distributed a list of names to that couple of people who may have put the list up for sale yet were not authorized to do so. The simplest and most compelling thing Dean could do at this point is explain who he distributed the list to if he wasn't the person who sold the list himself.
Would the current Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability weigh in on this issue? After all, the by-laws would indicate that part of their powers and responsibilities include distribution and sale of assets held by Mars Hill not in the ordinary line of business. This would seem like precisely the kind of scenario in which the BoAA should be most involved and vocal. But who exactly is even on the BoAA at this point?
So if Justin Dean did not work in ccoperation with anyone else then did he even distribute a list to other parties who then put the list up for sale? Because if he didn't even do that then he's the only one who could have been in a position to sell a list. He still hasn't explained exactly what it was he did and which parties other than himself were involved, per his statement from last week. He's sorry and that's commendable to say if we'd have a significantly clearer idea what he did that he's sorry for with respect to the list.
But here's the thing, based on how the bylaws of Mars Hill read with respect to the powers of the BoAA Justin Dean shouldn't even have had any access to the list as an asset of Mars Hill to begin with, right? He's not employed by Mars Hill any more, is he? And if he was in possession of assets the only entity with the authority to even entrust material to him would be the BoAA. Can the BoAA at least clarify that they did or did not, in fact, give Justin Dean any assets to begin with? If Dean's taking full responsibility for something he's done, okay, but it still seems like something he couldn't even have done if he was not entrusted with something by people at Mars Hill. And the thing is, based on the by-laws of Mars Hill the only people who legally count as members would be elders. But the corporation's dissolved/dissolving so who would the current MH elders be then?
Well, Dean has a chance to clarify what happened. And if he could get around to fielding the question of what conversation he asserted The Stranger fabricated in their publishing that would be helpful, too. And maybe he could even field why he thought it was appropriate to mention some kind of tax lien thing connected to Rob Smith as if it were relevant to anything at all. Dean doesn't seem to have realized that by telling Rob Smith he hadn't managed to form a suit for more than a year that this could retroactively cast doubt on the veracity of "we're not entirely sure who they are".
and there's still this from last week.
If selling the list was not authorized then it was illegal, wasn't it? That would make it all the more important to establish who really sold that list. Justin Dean's indicated last week he distributed a list to a couple of people. Well, that's a short list. Who? If it turns out he didn't distribute a list to a couple of people and acted alone, as seems indicated by the new apology, then this vitiates the truthfulness of last week's statement a bit.
The matter isn't about speculation but that some very, very basic questions have still not gotten unequivocal answers. Who sold the list by way of Church Leaders List? Why was the company url based in New Zealand, per Craig Gross's account. If Justin Dean distributed a list to a couple of people who were they? If he acted alone that doesn't mean he didn't distribute the list to others, after all.
That Dean is sorry is certainly a thing for him to share. But the sale and promotion of the list was also done through the Ministry Communicators Association, which is more than just the individual Justin Dean.
POSTSCRIPT
04-01-2015
0643A
And over at I4J's comment/discussion thread, looks like Justin Dean has apologized to Rob Smith for having brought up the tax lien stuff, too.
Justin Dean · Top Commenter · Buford, Georgia
Rob, you make some great points. I owe you an apology. I could have asked you privately about the tax lien but chose to post it and use it against you. That was wrong and I'm sorry. Please forgive me. I'm sure there's more to the story and that is your story to tell or not tell. We disagree on many things but I'd rather not get involved than attack you back online. If there's ever an issue going forward I'll bring it to you first next time, and appreciate if you'd do the same. Again, I'm sorry.
POSTSCRIPT 04-02-2015
1056PM
it may have been sparing on the details of precisely what happened but this apology from Dean was more unequivocal in its way than just about anything said by anyone in the history of MH leadership in social and mass media. And the apology to Smith was unequivocal. So that's commendable.
Monday, March 30, 2015
the last TMZ post a before and after 3-26-15 and 3-27-15
It has been noted here and there that the content of Craig Gross' "Last TMZ Post" has changed within the last seven days.
Without discussing that content, presented are a before and after set of screen captures.
March 26, 2015
then March 27, 2015
UPDATE
3-31-2015
0800pm
The text of the earlier version:
Last TMZ Post
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114672927831/last-tmz-post
Moving on from this Mars Hill drama. Here is my last post on this and then I will let the lawyers, reporters, bloggers and rest of the world make their own decisions on this.
We bought a email list and sent out an email to that list. Looking back, I learned that whether that list was stolen or not, we can’t buy a list and then send people emails. This is why companies send the list out on your behalf so it is not “spammed”. We were sold a list and told we could do that but after the fact realized that is not what we should of done. Lessons learned and we know now not to ever buy a list again. I apologize that I sent an unsolicited email to this list.
I emailed the whole list and told them I bought the list, I posted that on twitter and posted that on my blog. We are 100% forth coming in the fact that we bought the list from a lead sent to us from Justin Dean that the list was available.
The content of the email to the number of Mark Driscoll supporters that were on that list was the wrong content. Like I was told by a close friend of Mark’s “nothing in that email was untruthful”, but looking back it was the wrong content to send to that group. Hindsight is 20/20. I can’t apologize for the content of that email but I can admit that looking back we could have written a better email.
Many people won’t agree with the fact that we bought the list and we sent out an email and I totally understand. As of today, here is what has happened since.
The website churchleaderslist.com has been taken down.
Justin Dean took down his personal blog and his personal twitter after issuing an apology for being involved.
I have talked to bloggers, Christianity Today and a lawyer about this matter. The lawyer represents all the Mars Hill assets and let me know that this matter is being looked into. I have been willing to talk to anyone who calls me about this and will never “issue statements” and then not pick up the phone or not be available.
Justin Dean’s name is registered on every Mars Hill website domain as the owner. Justin Dean’s name is registered on a ton of Mark Driscoll personal website domains including Driscoll’s wife’s domain URL. Justin does not work alone. Justin works for Mark. Justin has covered up for Mark for 5 years and tried to put a positive spin and take the fall where he can for Mark. I wrote in my email that Mark Driscoll didn’t have accountability and that got him in trouble. I still believe that and I am not kicking a guy when he is down. All the facts point that these two work together still and they are still involved in slimy operations. Mark and Justin are not available for comments and I hope the people sorting all this out will not continue to give these guys a break and will expose this.
I said in my prior post, I did not want to get involved in this Mars Hill drama. Yes, I mentioned Mark in an email and I bought a Mars Hill list but the drama I am talking about is all that has been exposed since sending that. That now involves a possible police report on stolen property, deceit, lies and public statements and the press. That is not what I signed up for. That is a distraction for us and not what I am interested in. So, moving forward… You can read about what unfolds on other websites and we will get back to what we do.
**For those of you who have been trying to get our website taken down, our email provider cancelled, the death threats and violent emails.. we are not going to respond any more to that noise.
and the later version (how it looks now)
Moving on from this Mars Hill drama. Here is my last post on this and then I will let the lawyers, reporters, bloggers and rest of the world make their own decisions on this.
We bought a email list and sent out an email to that list. Looking back, I learned that whether that list was stolen or not, we can’t buy a list and then send people emails. This is why companies send the list out on your behalf so it is not “spammed”. We were sold a list and told we could do that but after the fact realized that is not what we should of done. Lessons learned and we know now not to ever buy a list again. I apologize that I sent an unsolicited email to this list.
I emailed the whole list and told them I bought the list, I posted that on twitter and posted that on my blog. We are 100% forth coming in the fact that we bought the list from a lead sent to us from Justin Dean that the list was available.
The content of the email to the number of Mark Driscoll supporters that were on that list was the wrong content. Like I was told by a close friend of Mark’s “nothing in that email was untruthful”, but looking back it was the wrong content to send to that group. Hindsight is 20/20. I can’t apologize for the content of that email but I can admit that looking back we could have written a better email.
Many people won’t agree with the fact that we bought the list and we sent out an email and I totally understand. As of today, here is what has happened since.
The website churchleaderslist.com has been taken down.
Justin Dean took down his personal blog and his personal twitter after issuing an apology for being involved.
I have talked to bloggers, Christianity Today and a lawyer about this matter. The lawyer represents all the Mars Hill assets and let me know that this matter is being looked into. I have been willing to talk to anyone who calls me about this and will never “issue statements” and then not pick up the phone or not be available.
**For those of you who have been trying to get our website taken down, our email provider cancelled, the death threats and violent emails.. we are not going to respond any more to that noise.
Without discussing that content, presented are a before and after set of screen captures.
March 26, 2015
then March 27, 2015
3-31-2015
0800pm
The text of the earlier version:
Last TMZ Post
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114672927831/last-tmz-post
Moving on from this Mars Hill drama. Here is my last post on this and then I will let the lawyers, reporters, bloggers and rest of the world make their own decisions on this.
We bought a email list and sent out an email to that list. Looking back, I learned that whether that list was stolen or not, we can’t buy a list and then send people emails. This is why companies send the list out on your behalf so it is not “spammed”. We were sold a list and told we could do that but after the fact realized that is not what we should of done. Lessons learned and we know now not to ever buy a list again. I apologize that I sent an unsolicited email to this list.
I emailed the whole list and told them I bought the list, I posted that on twitter and posted that on my blog. We are 100% forth coming in the fact that we bought the list from a lead sent to us from Justin Dean that the list was available.
The content of the email to the number of Mark Driscoll supporters that were on that list was the wrong content. Like I was told by a close friend of Mark’s “nothing in that email was untruthful”, but looking back it was the wrong content to send to that group. Hindsight is 20/20. I can’t apologize for the content of that email but I can admit that looking back we could have written a better email.
Many people won’t agree with the fact that we bought the list and we sent out an email and I totally understand. As of today, here is what has happened since.
The website churchleaderslist.com has been taken down.
Justin Dean took down his personal blog and his personal twitter after issuing an apology for being involved.
I have talked to bloggers, Christianity Today and a lawyer about this matter. The lawyer represents all the Mars Hill assets and let me know that this matter is being looked into. I have been willing to talk to anyone who calls me about this and will never “issue statements” and then not pick up the phone or not be available.
Justin Dean’s name is registered on every Mars Hill website domain as the owner. Justin Dean’s name is registered on a ton of Mark Driscoll personal website domains including Driscoll’s wife’s domain URL. Justin does not work alone. Justin works for Mark. Justin has covered up for Mark for 5 years and tried to put a positive spin and take the fall where he can for Mark. I wrote in my email that Mark Driscoll didn’t have accountability and that got him in trouble. I still believe that and I am not kicking a guy when he is down. All the facts point that these two work together still and they are still involved in slimy operations. Mark and Justin are not available for comments and I hope the people sorting all this out will not continue to give these guys a break and will expose this.
I said in my prior post, I did not want to get involved in this Mars Hill drama. Yes, I mentioned Mark in an email and I bought a Mars Hill list but the drama I am talking about is all that has been exposed since sending that. That now involves a possible police report on stolen property, deceit, lies and public statements and the press. That is not what I signed up for. That is a distraction for us and not what I am interested in. So, moving forward… You can read about what unfolds on other websites and we will get back to what we do.
**For those of you who have been trying to get our website taken down, our email provider cancelled, the death threats and violent emails.. we are not going to respond any more to that noise.
and the later version (how it looks now)
Moving on from this Mars Hill drama. Here is my last post on this and then I will let the lawyers, reporters, bloggers and rest of the world make their own decisions on this.
We bought a email list and sent out an email to that list. Looking back, I learned that whether that list was stolen or not, we can’t buy a list and then send people emails. This is why companies send the list out on your behalf so it is not “spammed”. We were sold a list and told we could do that but after the fact realized that is not what we should of done. Lessons learned and we know now not to ever buy a list again. I apologize that I sent an unsolicited email to this list.
I emailed the whole list and told them I bought the list, I posted that on twitter and posted that on my blog. We are 100% forth coming in the fact that we bought the list from a lead sent to us from Justin Dean that the list was available.
The content of the email to the number of Mark Driscoll supporters that were on that list was the wrong content. Like I was told by a close friend of Mark’s “nothing in that email was untruthful”, but looking back it was the wrong content to send to that group. Hindsight is 20/20. I can’t apologize for the content of that email but I can admit that looking back we could have written a better email.
Many people won’t agree with the fact that we bought the list and we sent out an email and I totally understand. As of today, here is what has happened since.
The website churchleaderslist.com has been taken down.
Justin Dean took down his personal blog and his personal twitter after issuing an apology for being involved.
I have talked to bloggers, Christianity Today and a lawyer about this matter. The lawyer represents all the Mars Hill assets and let me know that this matter is being looked into. I have been willing to talk to anyone who calls me about this and will never “issue statements” and then not pick up the phone or not be available.
**For those of you who have been trying to get our website taken down, our email provider cancelled, the death threats and violent emails.. we are not going to respond any more to that noise.
update on Craig Gross 114475804871 post, google cache of company page no longer available
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114475804871/my-run-in-with-buying-an-email-list
...
Whoever, was selling it created a twitter, a coupon code for the site and we were not the only ones to find out about this. The website is gone now but you can see the old site on a google archive here.
but ...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jKJW_vIjnKIJ:www.churchleaderslist.com/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
actually doesn't work
but ...
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=www.churchleaderslist.com%2f&d=4547761909733441&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=G9mB-8bD6ncUFTesKoYfGXyB7zrT0Ci0
might
for now.
That's not the only thing that changed in Craig Gross' posts from last week.
...
Whoever, was selling it created a twitter, a coupon code for the site and we were not the only ones to find out about this. The website is gone now but you can see the old site on a google archive here.
but ...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jKJW_vIjnKIJ:www.churchleaderslist.com/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
actually doesn't work
but ...
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=www.churchleaderslist.com%2f&d=4547761909733441&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=G9mB-8bD6ncUFTesKoYfGXyB7zrT0Ci0
might
for now.
That's not the only thing that changed in Craig Gross' posts from last week.
Thursday, March 26, 2015
Craig Gross writes more about the list/spam situation "Last TMZ Post", and a new development on the Dean/MCA side (something's down)
there was this, earlier
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114475804871/my-run-in-with-buying-an-email-list
and there has since been this
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114672927831/last-tmz-post
Earlier in the week Wenatchee The Hatchet wondered if it was possible the spam list was comprised of materials that would have been available to Resurgence Publishing Inc. Selling lists is common practice. Well, no, that got cleared up by Craig Gross's clarifying statements. And we had a visitor to testify on the Resurgence Publishing side that it (and by specific extension Sutton Turner) had nothing to do with the recent spam list sale.
So that pretty much leaves the multiple unnamed parties that may or may not have been given some kind of list of contacts by somebody and for the time being Justin Dean's gone silent.
For sake of review of what Gross wrote earlier:
I found it interesting that as soon as I posted this that Justin Dean posted a blog on his website that he somewhat apologized for distributing the list to me. Lets be clear, he sold the list to me. He didn’t broker a transaction. He sold me the list along with several other people who paid $1350-$1500 for the list.
I asked the lawyer that was in charge selling the assets for 100k earlier in 2014 and he said that no one has purchased the rights to sell these assets yet.
I found it interesting that on December 16th the WHOIS registrar data has been updated for over 100 websites that Mars Hill once owned and now they state that are owned by who else but… Justin Dean.
But at the moment it's not clear who actually sold the list. Dean seems to have said he was party to it but was not the person who brokered the sale, while Craig Gross' understanding seems to be that Dean directed Gross to a resource at which a list could be bought. It seems to be the understanding of Gross Dean sold him the list.
At the moment Justin Dean's twitter and his website is still in maintenance mode.
Lately removed was the March 19, 2015 2:13pm plug for Church Leaders List presented earlier this week at Wenatchee The Hatchet.
behold, the ad ... it's almost like somebody came along and said, "I know, how about a magic trick? I will make this advert disappear."
Ta-da!
It's ... gone.
The question of who was given the list by Justin Dean (at least by Justin Dean's account earlier this week) that could have sold the information has not been answered and for the time being it isn't clear the question ever will be answered. I.e. "How Did Church Leaders List Get Mars Hill Church’s Email List?" may not get an answer.
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114475804871/my-run-in-with-buying-an-email-list
and there has since been this
http://www.craiggross.com/post/114672927831/last-tmz-post
Earlier in the week Wenatchee The Hatchet wondered if it was possible the spam list was comprised of materials that would have been available to Resurgence Publishing Inc. Selling lists is common practice. Well, no, that got cleared up by Craig Gross's clarifying statements. And we had a visitor to testify on the Resurgence Publishing side that it (and by specific extension Sutton Turner) had nothing to do with the recent spam list sale.
So that pretty much leaves the multiple unnamed parties that may or may not have been given some kind of list of contacts by somebody and for the time being Justin Dean's gone silent.
For sake of review of what Gross wrote earlier:
I found it interesting that as soon as I posted this that Justin Dean posted a blog on his website that he somewhat apologized for distributing the list to me. Lets be clear, he sold the list to me. He didn’t broker a transaction. He sold me the list along with several other people who paid $1350-$1500 for the list.
I asked the lawyer that was in charge selling the assets for 100k earlier in 2014 and he said that no one has purchased the rights to sell these assets yet.
I found it interesting that on December 16th the WHOIS registrar data has been updated for over 100 websites that Mars Hill once owned and now they state that are owned by who else but… Justin Dean.
But at the moment it's not clear who actually sold the list. Dean seems to have said he was party to it but was not the person who brokered the sale, while Craig Gross' understanding seems to be that Dean directed Gross to a resource at which a list could be bought. It seems to be the understanding of Gross Dean sold him the list.
At the moment Justin Dean's twitter and his website is still in maintenance mode.
Lately removed was the March 19, 2015 2:13pm plug for Church Leaders List presented earlier this week at Wenatchee The Hatchet.
behold, the ad ... it's almost like somebody came along and said, "I know, how about a magic trick? I will make this advert disappear."
It's ... gone.
The question of who was given the list by Justin Dean (at least by Justin Dean's account earlier this week) that could have sold the information has not been answered and for the time being it isn't clear the question ever will be answered. I.e. "How Did Church Leaders List Get Mars Hill Church’s Email List?" may not get an answer.
Monday, March 23, 2015
and more updates via Throckmorton--Justin Dean may have had some role in the commendation of the list sale?
Throckmorton has an update.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/03/23/mass-email-anti-porn-ministry-buys-mars-hill-church-resurgence-mailing-list/
UPDATE: It appears that the website used to purchase the list is now down and went down after Craig Gross pointed out where he got the list. I have a screen cap of it and it still exists on Google’s cache. The website does not identify the mailing list as being The Resurgence’s list. It seems Craig Gross didn’t know what he was getting into when he purchased the list at the recommendation of Justin Dean. I am wondering how Church Leaders List (which is now gone from Twitter — see the cache — and the web) got the emails.
Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/03/23/mass-email-anti-porn-ministry-buys-mars-hill-church-resurgence-mailing-list/#ixzz3VH9mVHDj
And the twitter evidence at hand .. courtesy of Throckmorton's coverage
https://twitter.com/craiggross/status/580185345813180417/photo/1
So it seems Justin Dean had some kind of role at the moment. Justin Dean, as yet, has not clarified which conversation was alleged to have been invented and published by The Stranger staff so it looks like there's a couple of extra things Justin Dean's name is attached to that could use some explaining.
Best guess about the content of the list is that it had a Resurgence Publishing Inc. connection and that a for-profit company selling a list of names is not unusual in itself.
This also leads a person to wonder who Gross meant by "right hand man" now. In internal Mars Hill understanding "right hand man" would have seem to have referenced Sutton Turner and not Justin Dean. This seems a bit murky and perhaps things can be cleared up.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/03/23/mass-email-anti-porn-ministry-buys-mars-hill-church-resurgence-mailing-list/
UPDATE: It appears that the website used to purchase the list is now down and went down after Craig Gross pointed out where he got the list. I have a screen cap of it and it still exists on Google’s cache. The website does not identify the mailing list as being The Resurgence’s list. It seems Craig Gross didn’t know what he was getting into when he purchased the list at the recommendation of Justin Dean. I am wondering how Church Leaders List (which is now gone from Twitter — see the cache — and the web) got the emails.
Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/03/23/mass-email-anti-porn-ministry-buys-mars-hill-church-resurgence-mailing-list/#ixzz3VH9mVHDj
And the twitter evidence at hand .. courtesy of Throckmorton's coverage
https://twitter.com/craiggross/status/580185345813180417/photo/1
This site has now be taken down http://www.churchleaderslist.com/ but here's proof pic.twitter.com/h17TNCHfsi
So it seems Justin Dean had some kind of role at the moment. Justin Dean, as yet, has not clarified which conversation was alleged to have been invented and published by The Stranger staff so it looks like there's a couple of extra things Justin Dean's name is attached to that could use some explaining.
Best guess about the content of the list is that it had a Resurgence Publishing Inc. connection and that a for-profit company selling a list of names is not unusual in itself.
This also leads a person to wonder who Gross meant by "right hand man" now. In internal Mars Hill understanding "right hand man" would have seem to have referenced Sutton Turner and not Justin Dean. This seems a bit murky and perhaps things can be cleared up.
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