On lives and deaths and Mars Hill a year after Lief Moi's death; Mike Gunn in late 2022 on how there was good but "We were arrogant fools"; culture war breeding vs peacemaking in the month of "The Domino Revival"; and thinking about Mark's Irish kingly backstory and my Native American Calvinist part of my history

I should warn you up front that this is a blog post that is neither short nor focused. It does not just so happen that my friend Lief Moi died about a year ago; that that other co-founding elder of Mars Hill Church has shilled a book and a sermon series that reveals what an incompetent fool he’s become about reading biblical texts (no person worth functional matter in their brain pain can honestly claim that from Jeroboam of the northern kingdom to Ahab that there was a continuous father begets son series of relationships. The Omride dynasty supplanted Jeroboam’s dynasty and was itself wiped out by Jehu, whose own dynasty collapsed.  But in Driscoll’s fantasy-land to prove his point about father curses magic he needs all these kings of the northern kingdom in 1 Kings to be blood relatives to shill his self-help gimmick about fathers.  Ahem, I also have lost two parents in the last few years and have had some time to think about how Mark and Lief were always up front about presenting Mars Hill as a place where a Christian community would and could discover ways of being family together that would counter the neglects or misdirections Generation X got (or allegedly got, at any rate).

 

That’s not a small amount of stuff to think about.  So you’ve been warned, this is a long one even by the standards of Wenatchee The Hatchet.  It's after the break if you feel like reading 22,344 more words.  If you don't, I understand!  If you do read it, hey, thanks for reading. This will help to explain, if not always directly, how and why Wenatchee The Hatchet has been relatively or actually unproductive compared to earlier periods of the blog.

Joyful Exiles: in memoriam Lief Moi (10-11-1962 to 9-22-2022)

Joyful Exiles has published the following:

https://joyfulexiles.com/2022/09/30/in-memoriam/

Lief Moi has died. 

I alluded to it last week the day of at the end of a post, but only regular readers with a ton of background on MH would've spotted that.

I've written a few things about my friend over the years and there's a tag for anyone who wants to read or revisit that.  At the moment I don't feel especially inspired to write about the passing of my friend.  I met all three co-founding pastors of Mars Hill but Lief was the one who became my friend over the course of the last twenty years.  Later I may get it together enough to write something at Wenatchee The Hatchet that's more extensive but now is not the time.

Condolences to friends and family.  

update 10-21-2022

https://www.funeralsandcremationswa.com/obituary/lief-winfield-moi/

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: summary and inquiry

If you have read the entirety of this series of statements and documents all the way through then a couple of questions may have sprung to mind. If you have not, this post isn't really for you, because this post assumes you have read the entirety of what has come before. 

That by now Lief Moi has confessed to character flaws and expressed regret for his vote and his conduct both with respect to the 2007 trial and to his own conduct generally may be easily discovered.

The question that springs to mind for Wenatchee the Hatchet in the midst of all that has been documented about Moi's final years at Mars Hill is "Where was Mark Driscoll?"  Mark Driscoll may have persuaded (or adamantly argued) that Moi lacked the "kingly gifts" to run a campus the size of Ballard but what was the evidence at the time that Clem had those kingly gifts?  The delineated roles of campus pastor, lead pastor, or executive pastor may have been taking shape but the question here is more personal, given that Driscoll talked so much about Lief Moi being a friend since the start of Mars Hill what relationship was maintained? 

Driscoll replied "please pray for my friend ... " when asked if Moi would do more preaching and wha the status of Moi's health was.  Driscoll also explained that not only was Lief Moi in constant pain circa 2007 but that his wife Tonya was not in the best of health either.  Yet within the same 142-page document members were informed by none other than Moi himself his salary had been cut by approximately 40% 

By the time Tim Beltz informed Mars Hill as a whole, it seems, through a letter posted to The City in 2008, no mention of the health problems or the salary cuts were made.  Just ... other things.

A question for all who might have read this far, how stable and active is the friendship between Mark Driscoll and Lief Moi, two of the three co-founders of Mars Hill Fellowship (now Mars Hill Church) if Moi spoke to KOMO in the way that he did August 21, 2014?

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/21-former-Mars-Hill-Paster-272260301.html

There was apparently a lot of something or other going on behind the scenes in the last few years in which Moi was in the leadership culture at Mars Hill and a lot has not been entirely clear.  It looks to Wenatchee The Hatchet, given the evidence available, as though during the big 2007 re-org that Mark Driscoll was willing to ask members to pray for his friend ... but by early 2008 Driscoll's remarks about the impossibility of leading friends in ministry and the Tim Beltz statements about Moi make it seem as though the machinery of re-org moved along.  Mark Driscoll didn't really seem to do anything, actually.  Conspiracy theorists might ascribe all kinds of motives to Driscoll that are impossible to prove but what is safer to say and note by way of observation is that whatever happened to Lief Moi by way of the 2007 re-org Driscoll may not have approved of it as such ... but it does sort of look like he let it happen.

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: postscript 2: Lief Moi--Thoughts on Mark Driscoll's Announcement 8-28-2014 at We Love Mars Hill

http://welovemarshill.com/post/95889975473/lief-moi-thoughts-on-driscolls-announcement

Lief Moi, along with Mark Driscoll and Mike Gunn, were the founding pastors of Mars Hill.  Lief Moi has previously confessed his sins to Mars Hill at RepentantPastor.com.  What follows are his personal thoughts on Mark Driscoll’s most recent statement on the latest charges against him.

Almost two years ago I began my treatment program for alcoholism. I was charged with a DUI and the court ordered that I attend treatment for 2 years. At first I was just angry and blamed everyone else but me for the level of my drinking and therefore was unable to see how deep into the abyss I had fallen.

Over the next months I began to see how my behavior and choices were a result of hidden and repressed wounds as well as belief structures that I had adopted to survive. One of the character traits that I was illuminated to was narcissism. At first I rejected this diagnosis even though I had been told that I was one before during counseling with Bent Meyer, but this time I was forced to confront it and work the program. I can honestly say that it was a major turning point in my life on the level of being saved. For the first time I understood why I thought the thoughts I did and behaved the way I behaved. Everything began to fall in place and finally I was able to get to the secret places of my heart.

For the first time I began to see and understand that most people did not think like I did, they didn’t manipulate their way through life, they didn’t use people to get what they wanted or where they wanted to go, they actually had friends and were a friend, they didn’t lie to get themselves out of trouble, they didn’t live in grandiosity always believing the glass is not only half full but overflowing.  They actually lived in the now and reality, not what could be or should be.  They had relationships that where connected and did not live in a dissociative manner of being.

It was also at this time that I became aware of just how much my thinking and behaving affected others, and for the first time I began to truly understand the depths of pain and hurt I had caused - with my wife, family, friends, employees, acquaintances. This was also the first time that I could begin to confess (without excuses or rationalizing) to repent (not just in word and sincerity) but with action, and reconcile (not just making peace but joining for the first time in real relationship). In some ways this was a second, second birth.

Listening to Mark last Sunday and seeing his body language I can confidently say that he is not capable at this time of seeing or understanding what he has done. It is all mixed up with manipulation, rationalization, justification, self pity, bitterness, hatred, anger, confusion, and so much more. His statement is not breathed or moved by the Holy Spirit. There was not sorrow for the broken hearts, broken families, broken marriages, broken lives that have come as a result of the last many years at Mars Hill.

We will know when repentance and confession is genuine and Holy spirit empowered because it will seek unity and love for one another. Jesus’ prayer was that we would be one as he and the Father are one and would love each other as He loves the Father. This love will look like humility, putting the needs of others over our own, having a servants heart, being willing to sacrifice our own desires and wants for those of our brothers and sisters, laying down power, influence, control for the sake of peace and unity, welcoming correction and willfully submitting. These are but a few of the signs that Jesus is being lifted up, the Holy Spirit is at work and the Father is being glorified.

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: postscript 1: Lief Moi's confession at Repentant Pastor 03-29-2014

http://repentantpastor.com/confessions/lief-mois-confession-2/

Saturday, March 29, 2014
 

To members and former members of Mars Hill Church,

I am writing this confessional now because of recent events that have taken place at Mars Hill Church. My wife (Tonya) and I have discussed this and she as well as all my children are in full agreement that this is the right thing for me to do. I have also sought the counsel of my pastors and am in full submission to their leading in regards to my motives and actions with writing this. That being said, I will not be commenting on the current issues at Mars or with Mark Driscoll. I still regard Mark as my friend and love him and his family with the same passion as I did 20 years ago. My hope and prayer in doing this is to offer an apology to those with whom I have sinned against and a sincere desire for reconciliation if desired. I will be providing an email address for those of you who would like to speak to me further. I pray that the love of the Father and of His Son (Jesus) and The Holy Spirit will guide us all into true repentance and forgiveness. Amen

 When I resigned from MH I was not in a good place spiritually. I was in physical pain due to failed back surgeries, deep emotional pain, even though I was not aware of it and was having financial difficulties due to a 50% reduction in my salary. I was also being seduced by my successes and all that came with it. I had turned to alcohol to kill the pain and was using it to free me morally to behave in ways that were disgraceful and destructive. I was full of myself and behaved in ways I swore I would never do. For those of you that know my story, when I was 14 I pledged to God that I would never be like my father but over these last many years I had become just like him. Over the years the alcohol consumption increased and finally resulted in 2 DUI’s within a few months a little over a year ago. I was depressed, felt hopeless, angry, alone (my own choosing), beat up and wrecked. My bride of 28 years finally had to leave the house and I was all alone. I felt dead inside. I didn’t want to talk to Jesus and I didn’t want Him to talk to me. But He loves us, me, too much to turn away. I could not run from Him even though I tried and finally after doing to me what He had to do to Jacob to get his heart, I found myself beaten but not broke. This was the beginning of my return to sanity and God’s healing and restoration. My fists had to be opened, so that I could surrender and Jesus met me there, just like he did 37 years before. It has been a little over 14 months since I have consumed alcohol and I am truly thankful for the grace of my family and friends that have seen me through this.

 Somehow in all the mess of moral, financial, and mental depravity Jesus has chosen to use my sin to expose and free me of long held beliefs and behaviors that I had created to function and survive in the story of my past. I learned that much of who I was and how I thought and behaved was driven by Narcissism and anti-social tendencies. To say the least my world was rocked and I didn’t accept it at first but as I have learned more about it and myself it has begun to make sense. I tell you this because this is who I was when I helped plant MH and I believe some of the values and practices of MH have come from this perspective. In saying this I want to make it clear that neither myself nor any other leaders of MH as far as I know made decisions that we did not believe were for the glory of God and the best for the church. We continually sought unity and holiness, but speaking for myself many of my decisions where clouded by my brokenness. And for the decisions that resulted in injury to you I am truly sorry.

 For the past seven years I have been silent. I truly believed that at the time of my resignation it was best for the church for me to leave quietly. There was a lot of tension and some very major changes in how the church leadership was structured; I did not want to add to the difficulty and definitely did not want to see a split or factions arise, so, I decided to slip away in silence. I now believe that it would have been best if I had spoken up and for not doing so and leaving you all just wondering, “What happened?” Again I ask your forgiveness for not trusting you enough to be honest and open with my concerns and apprehensions.

 We (Mark, Mike and myself) began MH with a desire to not ever become like so many mega churches who have a sole king and when he falls the whole church falls, so we set up the bylaws so that every elder would have one vote and all decisions would be unanimous. This is an easier thing to do when you are small but as the church grew (and it grew) this became more difficult. The process was slow and difficult but it was functional. Myself and a few others believed that it was doable and remaining unified and equal was of higher importance. For those who were doing most of the administrative leadership and out front leading it was especially difficult for them and so the decision was made to change direction. I was not on board with this, neither were a number of other elders. This resulted in a very trying and difficult time for the elder board. The final result was two elders Paul Petry and Bent Meyer leaving the church. And within a year I left as well. I have met with both Paul and Bent and have asked their forgiveness for not doing more to stand up for them and I am thankful that they have both extended to me grace and forgiveness. My family to this day go camping with the Petry clan at the end of summer and Bent was kind enough to meet with Tonya and I during our struggles and offer biblical counsel and Christ-like love. These men were unjustly judged and treated, and all the elders at that time stand accountable. They deserve full exoneration and their good names made right.

 I now feel it necessary for me to ask your forgiveness for not standing up to what I felt was the right thing for MH, and that was to remain an all-elder, one vote, and unanimous elder board. You trusted me to do what was right and I gave in. I let my fear of man as well as my personal gain and well-being persuade me to go along with something that I believed would hurt MH and ultimately the Gospel.

 It has been written, spoke of and declared, that in order for a church to be “On Mission” that sometimes people need to be “Run over by the bus” and a large pile of bodies is a good thing. I know where this kind of thinking came from because I believed it to be true and was in full agreement. While it is true that those who desire to lead people astray (the bible calls them wolves) need to be dealt with, I believe we went way too far and responded with anger and self-righteousness’ in throwing people under the bus. I ask your forgiveness for my part in promoting and approving this kind of behavior, it was godless!. I believed that growth, commitment, loyalty and service where the indicators of a healthy church and the mark of a godly leader, but if these are done without love they become the fuel for pride and control. True health is found when a people are changed from one pattern of life to another, from darkness to light, from sin to holiness, from despair and hopelessness to faith and joy. I believe now that the true sign of God’s presence and blessing on a church is when His people walk humbly, kindhearted, patient, joyful, caring of others, peaceful, and above all else treat each other with a true love. A love that is rooted in sacrifice and grace . This is my prayer for Mars Hill; it is this kind of love that changes the world. AND THAT IS OUR TRUE MISSION!
So, for the many of you that I was not kind, patient, caring, peaceful, joyful and loving towards I ask your forgiveness and would love the opportunity to shake your hand or give a hug (whichever you prefer) and seek reconciliation in Jesus’s name.

Blessings,
Lief

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 8b Tim Beltz posts letter to City dated July 9, 2008 regarding the resignation of Moi

Notable in the letter in this post are details that did not get mentioned, such as the advisory/consultant role Tim Beltz played in restructuring compensation and salary at Mars Hill in the 2007 re-org; that Moi's salary had been cut by approximately 40% and that Lief Moi had decided to switch to half-time work and consider other employment during a period when both Moi himself and his wife were in poor health; or that it was possible (as some have conjectured) that even after the pay-cut in 2007 that Moi's salary was cut even more once he switched to half-time employment. 

Having some sense of discretion ... the letter is available after the jump. 

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 8a Tim Beltz' role as a consultant to MH during the 2007 re-org on pay, compensation and other things

http://web.archive.org/web/20080507010855/http:/voxpopnetwork.com/vision/about/

Earliest screen capture May 7, 2008

Tim Beltz - Executive Pastor
Pastor Tim oversees the business operations team, which includes finances, real estate, technology, human resources, and new campus assimilation. Tim and his wife Patty have attended Mars Hill Church for four years. You name it, he’s done it–Tim has twenty-five years of military experience, was COO of a large non-profit, started a consulting firm, and has two grandchildren. More about Pastor Tim.

 

http://marshill.com/media/rebels-guide-to-joy/the-rebels-guide-to-joy-in-humility#transcript

Mark Driscoll on November 4, 2007

Another man we appointed to that board is a man names Tim. I’ll tell you his story. He has an MBA in not-for-profit management. He has 20 or 30 years, I can’t remember, of not-for-profit manage experience. He’s run some very large, very significant ministries. He’s consulted for very large, very significant ministries. He nominated himself for eldership. Was a faithful member of this church. And he said, “You know, I think I can help. I think my management background will help organize Mars Hill.” We said, “Okay, well what’s your proposal?” He said, “I’ll work 50 hours a week for six months free of charge. I’ll quit my well paying job. I’ll shut down most of my consulting business. I’ll reduce my expenses, live off of my savings. I’ll nominate myself for eldership. I will work for free for six months, and I’ll come under Pastor Jamie, who’s young enough to be my son, and has none of the experience or education that I do so that I can humbly serve him so that Mars Hill can become a better church.”

God opposes the proud. Gives grace to the humble. The elders vote and say, “He should be an Executive Elder and on the Board of Directors.”

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 7 Mark Driscoll Q&A 2-2007 on how you can't lead staff who are your friends and how Munson as president freed him from conflict of interest

http://theresurgence.com/2008/04/07/question-and-answer-with-mark-driscoll-video

http://www.theresurgence.com/mark_driscoll_2008-02-27_video_tnc_qa

http://www.acts29network.org/sermon/qa-with-mark-driscoll/

 (starts at 00:31:52)

Q. How do you lead staff who are your best friends? Do you want the honest answer or should I punt? 

... You can't. ... you can't.


I hate to tell you that. ... Deep down in your gut you know if you're best friends and someone works for you that changes the relationship. Right? Because you can fire them. Of course you want to be friends with your elders and the people you work with. I mean, we're a church. I mean you wanna, you NEED to love the people you work with. But one of the hardest things, and only the lead guy gets this. Nobody else on staff even understands what I'm talking about. When you're the lead guy you wear multiple hats. Say it's someone who works with you and they're a good friend. You wear the "Hey, we're buddies" hat. We're friends. We go on vacation. We hang out. We do 
dinner. We're friends.

But you also wear the "I'm your boss" hat "You need to do your job or I might have to fire you" hat, and you also wear the "I'm your pastor. I love you, care for you, and I'm looking out for your well-being" hat. Those three hats are in absolute collision. Because how do you fire your friend and then pastor them through it? Right? I mean that is very complicated. I love you, you're fired, can I pray for you? That is a very .. what are we doing? I think if you're going to have your best friends working with you they need to be somewhere else on the team but not under you or the friendship really needs to change.

And what happens is when people are your friend ... I don't think that many do this intentionally but they want you to wear whatever hat is at their best interest at the time. So they didn't do their job, they're falling down on their responsibility, and you talk to them and say, "Look, you're not getting this done." They put on the "hey buddy. Yeah, I've been kinda sick lately and my wife and I are going through a hard time." and they want the friend hat on. And as a friend you're like, "Oh, I'm so sorry, dude." But then you put your boss hat back on and you're like "Yeah, but we pay you and we need you to get the job done." 

And then they want you to put the friend hat back on and keep sympathizing. 
And you're totally conflicted. ...

I have very good friends in this church. I have elders that are very dear friends, but when you have to do their performance review, when you have to decide what their wage is, when you have to decide whether they get promoted, demoted or terminated it's impossible to do that because you can't wear all three hats at the same time.


First guy I fired, he was a dear friend. A godly man, no moral or doctrinal sin whatsoever, he just wasn't keeping up with what we needed him to do. And it wasn't `cause he didn't try and wasn't working hard. And he had a wonderful wife and a great family and to this day I think the world of this guy.  And if my sons grew up to be like him, I'd be proud. And I'm not critical of this man at all. 


But I remember sitting down at that first termination. First I put on the friend hat. I said, "I love you, I appreciate you. I value you." Then I put on the boss hat, "I'm gonna have to let you go. Here's why." And then I put on the pastor hat, "How are you feeling? How are you doing?" And he was really gracious with me and he said, "This is just the weirdest conversation I've ever had." And I said, "Me too, `cause I'm not sure what hat I'm supposed to wear." 


Does that make any sense? The best thing is if you have a best friend maybe the best thing to do is not have them work with you.  Or if they do have them work under someone else. And to also pursue good friendships with people outside of your church. Some of my dearest friends today are not at Mars Hill, they're also pastors of other churches. Darrin Patrick is here, Vice-President of Acts 29. I love him. He's a brother. He's the guy I call. ... He's a pastor to me, you know?  Matt Chandler is here. I count as a friend. By God's Grace, C. J. Mahaney, I count as a friend. ...

From this same session, Driscoll also said:

Jamie Munson is head of the elder board. Jamie Munson is executive pastor. He is legal president of the organization. And for me, to be honest, it was the most freeing, liberating thing I could have dreamed of because now I don't have all that conflict of interest. I can be friends with someone but I don't have to fire them, do their performance review, and decide how much they get paid. It's just too conflicting for me." 

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 6 November 2007, Mark Driscoll asks members "Please pray for the health of my friend and brother Pastor Lief ... "

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

page 23-24/145
November 2007

This is from the section Pulpit and Preaching
responses submitted by Pastor Mark Driscoll


Q. Will we get to hear Pastor Lief preach again some time soon? I haven't heard him preach since the Mother's Day sermon and while I can understand why that sermon got pulled I hope he gets to preach some more in teh future if he's in better health (I read the prayer request that said he was in bad shape and his wife was not in good health, either). My hope is that we get to hear at least a little preaching from all our pastors at some point. I haven't heard a sermon from Pastor Tim Smith in a while or from Pastor Bubba at all and Pastor Bill's sermons on Jude were fantastic.


A. First, please do pray for the health of my friend and brother Pastor Lief. He has had very painful back problems for many years and he still stuffers from constant pain. Second I have a monthly preaching cadre where multiple Mars Hill pastors, along with pontential elders, potential church planters,and some Acts 29 church planters, are trained in preaching.  ...

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 5 Lief Moi letter from November 9, 2007 describing his reinstatement as elder in June

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

Page 7 of 145

A letter from Pastor Lief Moi
November 9, 2007
Dear Mars Hill Members

The following is a brief account and explanation of what has transpired with me and Mars Hill Church over the past few months. I hope this gives comfort and answers to those of you who have been concerned.

In June of this year I was asked to step down from the executive team and the role of campus pastor at Ballard. The primary reason, and I believe a valid one, was that I do not have the administrative skills to run a campus the size of Ballard. [emphasis added] Although I agreed with the assessment of my lack of Kingly skills, I felt that I was being removed from a role that God had called me to and as a result I resigned from the elder board. There were many elders who spoke with me and asked me to reconsider, but at the time my heart was hard and I was not interested. After much contemplation, prayer and speaking with Pastor Mark, I asked to be reinstated as an elder and the vote was unanimous with one abstention to reinstate me.

Because of a major role change and the re-org, it was determined that my salary was to be cut by almost 40%.[emphasis added] At that time I told Pastor Jamie that I would not be able to stay on full time but would consider a part time position so I could work on other means of providing for my family.

So as of today I am working 20 hours a week in Ballard counseling on Sundays and Wednesday evenings. I need you all to know and I ask your forgiveness for times during this process that I have not thought about the gospel first but considered my feelings most important and therefore have sinned. This has been one of the most difficult times of my life but am now looking to the future with my hope in Jesus and trust in the elders of Mars Hill to lead us into what Jesus would have us do and be. And it is this that I would ask you to do as well. These men love Jesus and they love you. We might not always agree on the method but we can always agree on Jesus.

Blessings

Pastor Lief

In the same large document Mark Driscoll would field a question from a member about whether or not Moi would be doing more preaching again

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 4b background of James Noriega's addition to MH elder team

In 2006 Noriega was added to the leadership team at Mars Hill.  Minutes of meetings regarding the decision are obviously not available, but at a couple of points in the history of Mars Hill Mark Driscoll mentioned Noriega from the pulpit.

The following sermon has been scrubbed, however.
http://marshill.com/media/1st-corinthians/spiritual-gifts-part-ii#transcript

Part 26: One Body, Many parts

1 Corinthians 12:12-26

Pastor Mark Driscoll

July 30, 2006

… In the meantime, we also picked up another miracle. This is West Seattle. This is on 35th at the top of the hill in West Seattle as you head toward White Center. I grew up in this neighborhood. This is a church building that is an absolute miracle. I’ll tell you the story on this space. I tried to launch Mars Hill Church in that building ten years ago, and we were rejected, and I’ve always wanted to be in there since. And what happened was, is we were growing. I went to Pastor Bill Clem, who was leading that congregation. He planted it for Acts 29 Church Planning Network, him and James Noriega [emphasis added], who is the other elder there and I said, “We’re maxed out. You got a fat building, 50,000 square feet, 1,000 seats.:” It’s a bigger building and the one you’re sitting in right now. I said, “Is there any way we to use it?” They said, “Well, we wanna reach as many people in West Seattle as possible. How about if we give it to you and work together?” we prayed about it for a second and said, “Yes.”

That is a $5 million gift. That is a $5 million gift, right? And I don’t know if you’ve been tracking the real estate market, people aren’t giving away a lotta real estate right now in Seattle and so we have – we’ve taken Pastor James and Pastor Bill on staff at Mars Hill. We have taken their members through the Gospel Class and they’re now members of Mars Hill. [emphasis added] They’ve been meeting as a core group over there. As we speak, there is $1.5 million of construction going on at the West Seattle campus, with the intention of opening in October in time for our ten year anniversary, and we want to expand over to West Seattle as well. We were thinking, “Well, we can borrow $8 million from the bank. We can spend $3 million and for $11 million, we can open up a 40,000 square foot location.” Well, we can now open more square feet for $1.5 million. So obviously, you take that opportunity.

The two cool aspects of this particular campus is one, is already zoned as a church, so we don’t need to fight use permits. We don’t have to bring it up to code. We can just walk in and use it immediately and it saves us, literally, a few years of permitting. Secondly, the lot that it is on is only zoned for 15,000 square feet of building and it already has 50,000 square feet, and because as grandfathered in, we could use it all. We could never build this building today as it exists.  And the cool thing with this building, a very Godly church that loved the Bible – started this church, built it, their denomination went liberal, dropped the doctrine of the inerrancy or perfection of Scripture and this building went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court and was the test case for who owns the church building, the congregation or the denomination. The congregation lost and these people actually bought their own building back, because they refused to drop the authority of Scripture as their value. [emphasis added] And so, there were some Godly older saints who paid for this building twice. It then went into decline but there is still a core of these people, like in their 70s and 80s, that are now members of Mars Hill. Grandmas tithing, waiting for us all to show up and fill that thing up again, and they’re praying us in. It’s a really cool God story and what God has done is pretty amazing.

This sermon is also no longer access to the public

http://marshill.com/media/rebels-guide-to-joy/the-rebels-guide-to-joy-in-humility

I’ll give you an example. In the middle of our reorganization as a church – we go to multiple campuses – we’ve just reconstituted what we’re calling a Board of Directors. It is sort of a senior level of eldership that oversees a lot of the policies and procedures for the whole church, and I was meditating on it this week. And I could tell you about all the men on the board. I’ll just tell you of a few. These are new men that were recently added to this board, and the one common thread which I see weaves all their stories together is this, humility. Not that they are humble, but they are pursuing humility by God’s grace.

...

The last one is James. He was running a drug and alcohol treatment center, I think for the Union Gospel Mission. He was an elder at Doxa Church in West Seattle. He and Pastor Bill were there and I approached them and said, “I think we should partner together,” and turned that building into Mars Hill West Seattle. I don’t know what the building’s worth – $4 million, whatever. He said, “Well what’s the deal?” I said, “Give us the building, resign as elders, work through the membership process, work through the eldership process. I guarantee you nothing – no power, no job, no eldership. If you meet the qualifications and the men vote you in, we’ll make you an elder, but I guarantee you no job. Nothing. If you believe it’s right for Jesus, give us the building, resign, give up all power of authority, give up your position. Walk away from it all for the cause of Jesus.”

He said, “Okay, I think it’s best for Jesus.” He resigned, voted to hand us the building and the people. Humbly went through the eldership process. After he finished the membership process, oversees our drug and alcohol addiction recovery. We just voted him onto the Board of Directors. Why? Because God opposes the proud and he gives grace to the humble.

 

This link and associated content will get you a 404 error
http://marshill.com/2010/10/07/when-mars-hill-became-multi-campus-church-2006-present

In the above document Pastor A. J. Hamilton wrote the following:

In early 2006, Mars Hill first became a multi-site church when we launched the Shoreline campus with live-streaming over the Web. This meant that at times, the sermon would look like a badly dubbed Samurai movie or Pastor Mark's image would explode into a messy digital kaleidoscope of color. We also increased the number of elders from 15 to 24, adding Pastors James Noriega and Bill Clem from Doxa (a former A29 church plant that is now our West Seattle campus). Campus planting took off for a season and Bellevue, Downtown, Olympia and Federal Way launched and continue to grow, relaunch into new facilities and plan for further expansion through new works.

 

Per the corresponding post about Clem, documents available through King County

 

 

While it is important to understand how and why Mars Hill began to embrace multi-site in the wake of failing to clear up licensing and zoning issues for the 50th street building that had been purchased earlier, this is still documenting a different story.  It is with this real estate transaction and its details in mind we can return back to this part of the story:


http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

From Appendix B (page 115 of 145)


Mars Hill Re-organization document, previously sent to members on June 23, 2007
Lief Moi
Initially, Pastor Lief Moi was uncomfortable with the transition plans and uncertain that his conscience would allow him to continue as an Elder of Mars Hill Church. This precipitated several tense and difficult meetings for us as an Elder team, striving for unity but also the most effective way to organize and lead our church. After a few weeks off with his family to think and pray, Lief Moi resigned from his position on staff as well as his office as Elder of Mars Hill Church. Loving our brother and unwilling to let this matter go without every possible effort for reconciliation Pastor Mark, and Pastor Bill Clem spent hours laboring over Lief’s concerns and frustrations. Following the extremely fruitful meeting with Pastors Mark and Bill, Lief sought reconciliation with several pastors who felt they had been wronged in the matter by him, and submitted himself humbly for restoration as an Elder of the church. The Elders assembled, discussed the matter soberly, and after much prayer and discussion voted to restore Lief as an Elder of Mars Hill Church and a member of the Ballard Campus team. Lief will continue to employ his unique gifts, which many of our members have been blessed by for years, to strengthen faith, fortify marriages, and equip the saints for acts of service as we love our city with Jesus. This process put many of our men’s faith, endurance, constitution, and their trust in Jesus to the test. It drove many men deep into God’s Word for wisdom, seeking His discernment and leading through prayer. Despite sleepless nights and frayed nerves, we are truly a stronger Elder body because of this incredible labor God has shepherded us through. In His wisdom, He has made us bear this weighty issue as we move to a structure that distributes and delegates authority and mandates more trust and confidence in one another. Praying together as 24 men united by our love of Jesus and His great commission, it is evident He has uniquely tempered us for the coming season as a lovingly unified yet honest and effective team.

 

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 4a background on James Noriega becoming a Christian and becoming an elder at Doxa, an Acts 29 church plant

the following are excerpts from two articles published in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer in 2004

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Mission-s-free-legal-clinic-grows-helping-1146192.php

June 1, 2004

James Noriega didn't know he'd sold drugs to an undercover police officer until the day he was baptized. 

Recognized by a member of the congregation who happened to be an officer, Noriega was escorted from the church, his face still dripping.

It wasn't a setup, Noriega said, unless you appreciate the Almighty's sense of humor. It was karmic payback, his life catching up with him -- and his own yearning to put despair behind him.

Like many of the homeless and formerly homeless men who come to Seattle's Union Gospel Mission legal clinic, Noriega had been seeking legal advice, but hoped for transformation. Like many others, he has found both.

"Meth made me someone I wasn't," says Noriega, 37, who went to prison for a year, instead of the five years he might have served, helped by Union Gospel Mission's legal clinic and a substance-abuse program run by the faith-based mission. 
...

Noriega can relate. When he was in the Kitsap County Jail serving a sentence for a warrant "I didn't even know had been issued," he had time to reflect on his newfound faith and life.

Noriega had prayed to be reunited with his wife. A rigger at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton, he never wanted a divorce. But she had found someone else. 

When she got the children, he discovered drugs. Then he discovered unemployment. He hit the streets, still masking pain with meth.

"She couldn't -- and didn't -- claim domestic violence or anything like that," Noriega said. "It came
down to the fact she didn't love me anymore. I loved my kids. My heart was broken. I quit going to work ... I didn't have anything, yet I was supposed to pay $900 a month in child support." 

The legal clinic has helped Noriega, now a counselor with the mission, repay child support, get out of debt and start anew.

On New Year's Eve last year, he married a woman he met through a Christian dating service and "has a chance to be a dad again" to her 10-year-old daughter.

"God works through the cracks of our lives," Noriega said. "I've learned not to be afraid of cracks."


http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Path-through-despair-and-redemption-led-to-1160587.php
Nov 25, 2004

James Noriega had found it once, before divorce sent him into a drug-fueled tailspin that ended in a Pioneer Square park one cold December night.
...

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Path-through-despair-and-redemption-led-to-1160587.php#page-2
The chain of events that landed Noriega at the same shelter was set in motion in 1996, when his high school sweetheart and the mother of his two children divorced him. His whole identity was wrapped up in being a husband and a father, and when that disintegrated, Noriega lost his grip. 

"I just never really got over the divorce," the 38-year-old said.

Drugs became a salve, and Noriega was soon in the throes of a serious methamphetamine addiction. At its peak, he was using about $100 worth of drugs daily. He lost his job at a Puget Sound shipyard. The felonies followed, and the former family man, who'd never had so much as a parking ticket in his life, ended up in prison. 

After being released, Noriega turned to family members and friends. But he was a liability, and no one would take him in. One chilly night in December 1999, he found himself sitting on a bench in Occidental Park -- the same bench he'd walked by years earlier on his way to a football game with friends. A homeless man was there at the time, praising the Lord. What a pathetic sap, Noriega thought to himself.

There he was, in the same place, with nowhere to go. Noriega noticed a line of men outside the nearby mission and walked over. He soon met Ostertag, who was in a dorm on the same floor. They became friends, graduating from the program the same day and joining the shelter's paid staff together two years ago. 

Noriega moved out of the shelter then, but the two continued to work and spend time together. When Noriega took on his current position as a case manager for the shelter's drug recovery program, Ostertag stepped into his former role, working with men newly arrived at the shelter to place them in programs and provide referrals to other community agencies.

The pair has the sort of friendship, Noriega said, forged by shared experience. 

"There are some definite depths of our souls we share," he said. "We grew up together, basically, in a new life -- muddled through it, fell on our faces, day after day, in a good way, trying to get it right."

And finally, it seems, they have

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 3 background of Bill Clem's addition to MH elder team as recounted by people at Mars Hill

This sermon has been pulled since earlier this year

http://marshill.com/media/1st-corinthians/spiritual-gifts-part-ii#transcript

Part 26: One Body, Many parts

1 Corinthians 12:12-26

Pastor Mark Driscoll

July 30, 2006 

… In the meantime, we also picked up another miracle. This is West Seattle. This is on 35th at the top of the hill in West Seattle as you head toward White Center. I grew up in this neighborhood. This is a church building that is an absolute miracle. I’ll tell you the story on this space. I tried to launch Mars Hill Church in that building ten years ago, and we were rejected, and I’ve always wanted to be in there since. And what happened was, is we were growing. I went to Pastor Bill Clem, who was leading that congregation. He planted it for Acts 29 Church Planning Network, him and James Noriega, who is the other elder there [emphasis added] and I said, “We’re maxed out. You got a fat building, 50,000 square feet, 1,000 seats.:” It’s a bigger building and the one you’re sitting in right now. I said, “Is there any way we to use it?” They said, “Well, we wanna reach as many people in West Seattle as possible. How about if we give it to you and work together?” we prayed about it for a second and said, “Yes.”

This link still works 

http://pastormark.tv/2011/11/29/jesus-loves-church-mergers-and-so-should-you

Mars Hill West Seattle 

Mars Hill West Seattle was a result of conversations I had with Pastor Bill Clem, who now leads our Ballard church. Bill planted Doxa Fellowship in West Seattle after having served as the North American Director for Sonlife Ministries, a national discipleship ministry. The church was part of the Acts 29 network and running under 100 people when Bill and I began talking.

At the time, Bill’s wife was diagnosed with cancer, from which she eventually passed away. I called up Bill to offer support for the tough battle he and his wife were facing, and I also asked if he’d be open to letting us use Doxa’s building on Sunday mornings, as Doxa was only meeting on Sunday nights. [emphasis added] 

Eventually, as our church met in his building in the mornings, as we talked more and more, and as Bill’s wife faced a continuing and difficult battle with cancer, Doxa decided to merge with Mars Hill and become part of our church. We gave Bill many months off, paid him a full salary, and let him care for his dying wife and get a break from the exhausting work he’d undertaken in planting a church with an often bedridden wife. Her funeral was held in the church building that Pastor Bill had been given, and once he was ready, he started working for Mars Hill and is now our lead pastor at our biggest church, Mars Hill Ballard. Additionally, he has published the book Discipleship for us, and is the Northwest regional director for Acts 29. [emphasis added] 

The old church building we inherited needed a lot of work. So, the people of Mars Hill generously gave $1.8 million in one massive special offering to renovate it. It’s been a great transition over the last five years or so, with the church growing from less than 100 people to now well over 700 people coming together to worship Jesus and serve the West Seattle area, many of whom are new believers who’ve met Jesus and been baptized at Mars Hill West Seattle. Not only that, Mars Hill West Seattle has gone from being a church plant to planting churches, having planted Mars Hill Federal Way in 2009.

404 error for this next one, and since Mars Hill introduced robots.txt The WayBack Machine may not work for this
http://marshill.com/2010/10/07/when-mars-hill-became-multi-campus-church-2006-present

On October 7, 2010 Mars Hill Pastor A. J. Hamilton wrote the following:

In early 2006, Mars Hill first became a multi-site church when we launched the Shoreline campus with live-streaming over the Web. This meant that at times, the sermon would look like a badly dubbed Samurai movie or Pastor Mark's image would explode into a messy digital kaleidoscope of color. We also increased the number of elders from 15 to 24, adding Pastors James Noriega and Bill Clem from Doxa (a former A29 church plant that is now our West Seattle campus). Campus planting took off for a season and Bellevue, Downtown, Olympia and Federal Way launched and continue to grow, relaunch into new facilities and plan for further expansion through new works.

Worth noting in the history of Clem being sent out to plant the church that became Doxa that became Mars Hill West Seattle
http://web.archive.org/web/20010818162128/http://www.a29.org/who_involved_staff.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20020219183815/http://www.a29.org/who_involved_staff.htm

Perhaps Acts 29 can clarify if Mark Driscoll was church planting scout during the period in which Doxa was planted, or confirm this detail?
asd

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 2 6-23-2007 Moi resigns as elder in 2007, talked back into being elder by Driscoll and Clem

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

From Appendix B (page 115 of 145)


Mars Hill Re-organization document, previously sent to members on June 23, 2007
Lief Moi
Initially, Pastor Lief Moi was uncomfortable with the transition plans and uncertain that his conscience would allow him to continue as an Elder of Mars Hill Church. This precipitated several tense and difficult meetings for us as an Elder team, striving for unity but also the most effective way to organize and lead our church. After a few weeks off with his family to think and pray, Lief Moi resigned from his position on staff as well as his office as Elder of Mars Hill Church. Loving our brother and unwilling to let this matter go without every possible effort for reconciliation Pastor Mark, and Pastor Bill Clem spent hours laboring over Lief’s concerns and frustrations. Following the extremely fruitful meeting with Pastors Mark and Bill, Lief sought reconciliation with several pastors who felt they had been wronged in the matter by him, and submitted himself humbly for restoration as an Elder of the church. The Elders assembled, discussed the matter soberly, and after much prayer and discussion voted to restore Lief as an Elder of Mars Hill Church and a member of the Ballard Campus team. Lief will continue to employ his unique gifts, which many of our members have been blessed by for years, to strengthen faith, fortify marriages, and equip the saints for acts of service as we love our city with Jesus. This process put many of our men’s faith, endurance, constitution, and their trust in Jesus to the test. It drove many men deep into God’s Word for wisdom, seeking His discernment and leading through prayer. Despite sleepless nights and frayed nerves, we are truly a stronger Elder body because of this incredible labor God has shepherded us through. In His wisdom, He has made us bear this weighty issue as we move to a structure that distributes and delegates authority and mandates more trust and confidence in one another. Praying together as 24 men united by our love of Jesus and His great commission, it is evident He has uniquely tempered us for the coming season as a lovingly unified yet honest and effective team.

a chronology of Lief Moi's connection to MH 2007-2008 in primary documents: part 1 MH informs members on 6-23-2007 Lief Moi stepped down as Executive Elder

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

Appendix B (p 113 of 145)
Mars Hill Re-organization document
previously sent to members on June 23, 2007
(pages 3-4)

Changing our Executive Team
A pivotal shift was streamlining our Executive Team. On June 11 at the All-Elders' meeting, Pastors Tim (Smith), Steve (Tompkins), Mike (Wilkerson), James (Harleman) and Lief (Moi) stepped down as Executive Elders. Subsequently, Scott Thomas and Bubba Jennings nominated themselves as Executive Elders and were voted in, establishing the Executive roles corresponding to the new team structure and transitioning the other pastors to their new roles in the revised organizational structure. Additionally, Tim Beltz, who is an elder candidate, is serving on a consulting basis to the Executive Elders and helping provide a wealth of nonprofit management experience to our decision making.

From Appendix B (page 115 of 145)


Mars Hill Re-organization document, previously sent to emmbers on June 23, 2007
Lief Moi
Initially, Pastor Lief Moi was uncomfortable with the transition plans and uncertain that his conscience would allow him to continue as an Elder of Mars Hill Church. This precipitated several tense and difficult meetings for us as an Elder team, striving for unity but also the most effective way to organize and lead our church. After a few weeks off with his family to think and pray, Lief Moi resigned from his position on staff as well as his office as Elder of Mars Hill Church. Loving our brother and unwilling to let this matter go without every possible effort for reconciliation Pastor Mark, and Pastor Bill Clem spent hours laboring over Lief’s concerns and frustrations. Following the extremely fruitful meeting with Pastors Mark and Bill, Lief sought reconciliation with several pastors who felt they had been wronged in the matter by him, and submitted himself humbly for restoration as an Elder of the church. The Elders assembled, discussed the matter soberly, and after much prayer and discussion voted to restore Lief as an Elder of Mars Hill Church and a member of the Ballard Campus team. Lief will continue to employ his unique gifts, which many of our members have been blessed by for years, to strengthen faith, fortify marriages, and equip the saints for acts of service as we love our city with Jesus. This process put many of our men’s faith, endurance, constitution, and their trust in Jesus to the test. It drove many men deep into God’s Word for wisdom, seeking His discernment and leading through prayer. Despite sleepless nights and frayed nerves, we are truly a stronger Elder body bbecause of this incredible labor God has shepherded us through. In His wisdom, He has made us bear this weighty issue as we move to a structure that distributes and delegates authority and mandates more trust and confidence in one another. Praying together as 24 men united by our love of Jesus and His great commission, it is evident He has uniquely tempered us for the coming season as a lovingly unified yet honest and effective team.


http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

Page 7 of 145

A letter from Pastor Lief Moi

November 9, 2007

Dear Mars Hill Members

The following is a brief account and explanation of what has transpired with me and Mars Hill Church over the past few months. I hope this gives comfort and answers to those of you who have been concerned.

In June of this year I was asked to step down from the executive team and the role of campus pastor at Ballard. The primary reason, and I believe a valid one, was that I do not have the administrative skills to run a campus the size of Ballard. [emphasis added] Although I agreed with the assessment of my lack of Kingly skills, I felt that I was being removed from a role that God had called me to and as a result I resigned from the elder board. There were many elders who spoke with me and asked me to reconsider, but at the time my heart was hard and I was not interested. After much contemplation, prayer and speaking with Pastor Mark, I asked to be reinstated as an elder and the vote was unanimous with one abstention to reinstate me.

Because of a major role change and the re-org, it was determined that my salary was to be cut by almost 40%.[emphasis added] At that time I told Pastor Jamie that I would not be able to stay on full time would consider a part time position so I could work on other means of providing for my family.

So as of today I am working 20 hours a week in Ballard counseling on Sundays and Wednesday evenings. I need you all to know and I ask your forgiveness for times during this process that I have not thought about the gospel first but considered my feelings most important and therefore have sinned. This has been one of the most difficult times of my life but am now looking to the future with my hope in Jesus and trust in the elders of Mars Hill to leada us into what Jesus would have us do and be. And it is this that I would ask you to do as well. These men love Jesus and they love you. We might not always agree on the method but we can always agree on Jesus.

Blessings

Pastor Lief

http://marshill.com/media/1st-corinthians/spiritual-gifts-part-ii#transcript

Part 26: One Body, Many parts

1 Corinthians 12:12-26

Pastor Mark Driscoll

July 30, 2006 

… In the meantime, we also picked up another miracle. This is West Seattle. This is on 35th at the top of the hill in West Seattle as you head toward White Center. I grew up in this neighborhood. This is a church building that is an absolute miracle. I’ll tell you the story on this space. I tried to launch Mars Hill Church in that building ten years ago, and we were rejected, and I’ve always wanted to be in there since. And what happened was, is we were growing. I went to Pastor Bill Clem, who was leading that congregation. He planted it for Acts 29 Church Planning Network [emphasis added], him and James Noriega, who is the other elder there and I said, “We’re maxed out. You got a fat building, 50,000 square feet, 1,000 seats.:” It’s a bigger building and the one you’re sitting in right now. I said, “Is there any way we to use it?” They said, “Well, we wanna reach as many people in West Seattle as possible. How about if we give it to you and work together?” we prayed about it for a second and said, “Yes.”

 

 

 

http://pastormark.tv/2011/11/29/jesus-loves-church-mergers-and-so-should-you

Mars Hill West Seattle 

Mars Hill West Seattle was a result of conversations I had with Pastor Bill Clem, who now leads our Ballard church. Bill planted Doxa Fellowship in West Seattle after having served as the North American Director for Sonlife Ministries, a national discipleship ministry. The church was part of the Acts 29 network and running under 100 people when Bill and I began talking.

At the time, Bill’s wife was diagnosed with cancer, from which she eventually passed away. I called up Bill to offer support for the tough battle he and his wife were facing, and I also asked if he’d be open to letting us use Doxa’s building on Sunday mornings, as Doxa was only meeting on Sunday nights. [emphasis added] 

Eventually, as our church met in his building in the mornings, as we talked more and more, and as Bill’s wife faced a continuing and difficult battle with cancer, Doxa decided to merge with Mars Hill and become part of our church. We gave Bill many months off, paid him a full salary, and let him care for his dying wife and get a break from the exhausting work he’d undertaken in planting a church with an often bedridden wife. Her funeral was held in the church building that Pastor Bill had been given, and once he was ready, he started working for Mars Hill and is now our lead pastor at our biggest church, Mars Hill Ballard. Additionally, he has published the book Discipleship for us, and is the Northwest regional director for Acts 29. [emphasis added] 

The old church building we inherited needed a lot of work. So, the people of Mars Hill generously gave $1.8 million in one massive special offering to renovate it. It’s been a great transition over the last five years or so, with the church growing from less than 100 people to now well over 700 people coming together to worship Jesus and serve the West Seattle area, many of whom are new believers who’ve met Jesus and been baptized at Mars Hill West Seattle. Not only that, Mars Hill West Seattle has gone from being a church plant to planting churches, having planted Mars Hill Federal Way in 2009.

 

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

page 23-24/145


This is from the section Pulpit and Preaching
responses submitted by Pastor Mark Driscoll


Q. Will we get to hear Pastor Lief preach again some time soon? I haven't heard him preach since the Mother's Day sermon and while I can understand why that sermon got pulled I hope he gets to preach some more in teh future if he's in better health (I read the prayer request that said he was in bad shape and his wife was not in good health, either). My hope is that we get to hear at least a little preaching from all our pastors at some point. I haven't heard a sermon from Pastor Tim Smith in a while or from Pastor Bubba at all and Pastor Bill's sermons on Jude were fantastic.


A. First, please do pray for the health of my friend and brother Pastor Lief. He has had very painful back problems for many years and he still stuffers from constant pain. Second I have a monthly preaching cadre where multiple Mars Hill pastors, along with pontential elders, potential church planters,and some Acts 29 church planters, are trained in preaching.  ...