I have already broached
the topic of dream divination in Mark Driscoll’s ministry by way of his
accounts of his reliance on what he’s called prophetic dreams in his own
ministry.
Following up on
an old thread taken up by Warren Throckmorton, however, it’s worth revisiting
that Driscoll claimed he rarely interpreted anyone else’s dreams. That Driscoll said it was rare for him to
interpret the dreams of others suggests that the base line against which he
made this comparison was a history of interpreting his own dreams.
https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2014/01/06/dreamweaver-the-visions-of-mark-driscoll/
http://download.marshill.se/files/MH%20Audio/2005/20050717_joseph-interprets-pharaohs-dreams_sd_audio.mp3
https://web.archive.org/web/20140728061428/http://marshill.com/media/genesis/joseph-interprets-pharaohs-dreams/ajax_transcript?lang=en
…
And there’s only been a few occasions where I’ve ever interpreted
anybody else’s dream. And I’ll say this. Not all dreams are from God. Some of
them are from chili or Taco Bell or, you know. You say, “I had pepperoni pizza,
and I saw Jesus.” No, no, you had gas. You just had gas and you were
hallucinating. You know, you’ll be fine. Not all dreams are from God, okay. But
when you do get a dream from God, it needs to be interpreted so you know what
it means unless God would give you the interpretation himself.
I had one occasion where I actually did interpret a guy’s dream.
It was the strangest dream. It was at the old building. We had six services,
and I was between services. And this guy drove – he came into the church. And
he was an Asian guy from Canada. He had his wife and a few kids. They all
looked very, very tired. He came up to me. He said, “I really need to meet with
you right now.” I said, “Man, I just preached three. I gotta get a bite to eat.
I gotta preach three more. I really can’t leave right now.” He said, “No, we
just drove all the way from northern Canada. We haven’t slept all night.”
Apparently God’s not in Canada. God has to come down.
So, I tell this guy. I’m like, “All right, cool. We’ll do that.
Now tell me your story.” So, he tells me his dream. And his wife’s literally
falling asleep. His kids are exhausted. They’ve been up all night driving. It
was the weirdest thing cause I don’t know how or why. I just told him. “Well,
here’s what it means, and here’s what God’s gonna do. And you need to quit
working at this church. God’s gonna have you hired at this church. And these
people are hard hearted. And God doesn’t want you to serve them anymore because
he’s gonna judge them, but he wants to take care of you and your family. So he
wants to move you on before he judges.”
And I just talked for about 10, 15 minutes. And he’s like, “How do
you know that?” I was like, “I have no idea.” I never met this guy. I don’t
know this guy. I don’t know anything about him. And he says, “Well, then that’s
the interpretation.” His wife gave me a big hug. She’s crying. She says, “You
know, that’s what we needed to hear.” They get in the car and leave. They go
back to Canada. I never heard from them again.
And it’s weird because some of you, there’s time when God speaks
through you, or reveals something to you, or you interpret a dream. You go, “I
don’t know. I don’t understand. But apparently God loves you, and he wanted to
say something to you. And apparently he used me in that moment to talk to you.”
That’s what Joseph is doing. Joseph says, “You’ve had a dream. It’s from God.
You don’t know God, but I do. So, why don’t you tell me the dream? I’ll ask
God. He’ll tell me the meaning, and I’ll serve as sort of a mediator and a go
between between you and God here. You tell me the dream. I’ll ask him. I’ll
tell you the meaning cause only God knows the meaning cause God’s the one who
gave the dream.”
http://download.marshill.se/files/MH%20Audio/2006/20060910_spiritual-gifts-part-v_sd_audio.mp3
Now, I’m hesitant to tell you that I’ve got this gift because most
people who say that are total wingnuts, which maybe I am, which would explain a
ton. And when I say that, I know I have the prophetic teaching, preaching
proclamation aspect, but there are times in my ministry where I’ve had this
future revelation knowledge thing going on – where I know the future and
proclaim it to a group of people. I’ll tell you one. It was the weirdest day.
It was years ago. I was at a young pastors’ conference and they bring out the
speakers and bring you out on the stage and everybody gets a chance to teach
and there’s like, I don’t know, maybe a thousand young pastors. This big
organization, led by this prominent young teacher, preacher guy, and I was
supposed to speak at lunch, which is not the best slot. Everybody’s eating.
This is not, you know, you’re the third opening band before the headliner, that
kinda gig and so I’m like, “Oh great. I get to teach the Bible while everyone
is eating. I’m sure this will be, just be life-changing for everyone over
dessert.” And so I got up and I was planning on teaching the book of Ephesians
on the reconciling power of the Gospel to bring diverse people groups together
in Jesus Christ, and I went to do my teaching up front. I thought, “Well, I
better open in prayer,” so I start praying, “Dear Jesus,” next thing I know, I
start prophesying. Unexpectedly, over lunch, at a pastor’s conference and God
told me that some of the key leaders in this conference that was hosting me and
paid for my hotel and flight and honorarium had ongoing, unrepentant sexual
sin. That the other leaders in the ministry knew of it and wouldn’t do anything
about it and that God was frustrated because there was a disqualified leader
leading the thing and he wanted me to publicly declare it and repent for him in
public on the stage, during lunch, in my prayer time, at a pastor’s conference
with the guys who write the check.
So, I start praying and I’m like, “God and I’m sorry that, you
know, I’m sorry that there’s sexual sin and perversion and disqualification –
that the leaders will not address this issue and I know judgment is against the
organization and I know you will expose the evildo-” I go off. I kept my eyes
closed, because I’m thinking, “If they chuck stuff, I don’t even wanna see it
coming,” you know? I’m like, “Oh, man! Where is this coming from?” and I’m
flowing and going and I’m like, “Oh, man. I hope this is the Ghost. I hope this
is real.” So I’m going with this. I go for about 15, 20 minutes in a prayer,
right? And I finally open my eyes, “Amen,” everybody’s still got their food on
their fork, like – at first they’re like, “This is a weird skit,” and then
they’re like, “This is really weird,” you know? And a pastor’s magazine wrote
it up as a prophetic moment. I said, “Amen,” and I just didn’t know what to do,
so I just walked away. I just left. Yeah. See you later. So I just leave. I walk
off the stage and the guy who’s on the stage side, who runs the ministry – he’s
the headliner, he’s the emcee, this is his organization. I just was like, “I’m
sorry, dude. You know, I didn’t,” – and he gets the mic and he comes out and
he’s trying to pick up the mess, because they got, like a half-hour left on the
schedule they gotta fill. So he’s like, “Blah, blah, blah.” He sounds like the
teacher from Peanuts. He’s not saying anything. He doesn’t know what to say.
Less than a year later, it gets exposed that he was the guy who was an absolute
sex addict, out of control, disqualified from ministry. People knew and weren’t
doing anything about it. I prophesied against that guy and then he got fired
and he got exposed and I haven’t gotten any invitations back, but I felt like
that was a prophetic moment, that I wasn’t looking for. I wasn’t trying to – I
was just gonna, “Hey, let’s go to Ephesians and talk about nice Jesus.” Next
thing I know, I’m running for the airport, you know? And sometimes, that’s the
way the prophetic word works. You don’t walk in, “Hi, I’m a prophet.” No. You
don’t elect yourself to be a prophet. If you read the Old Testament, the
prophets end up getting killed and they cry a lot, so this isn’t what you, you
know coach your kids to grow up and be, you know? “Hey, you could be a
prophet.” They’re like, “I don’t wanna be that. I want the gift of helps.
People like them,” you know, I mean this is – this is a weird gift. And
sometimes it’s not revelation of future knowledge to a group like this.
Sometimes it’s just to an individual. That’s why a lot of prophecy shouldn’t
even happen in the church, it’s a personal one-on-one word, word of knowledge
or wisdom or revelation – some other traditions will call it – but it’s a
personal word from God through someone with a gift of prophecy to an
individual.
Again, Agabus is a good illustration of this. The prophet in Acts
21:10 and 11. God gives him a word on how Paul is gonna die. So he goes to Paul
and says, “Paul, I know how you’re gonna die and he tells him, here’s how
you’re gonna die.” That’s a personal word from God through the prophet Agabus
to Paul. And again, I’ve had this. The first time I did it, it freaked me out.
I was on a national radio show taking calls from all around the country for
three hours on Saturday night. I was hosting the show because the usual host
was on vacation, so I’m taking calls, talking about Jesus, answering Bible
questions, having a good time. This guy calls in. I don’t remember his name.
We’ll call him Hank, because I don’t remember his name. We’ll call him Hank.
Hank calls in from Ohio – I think it was Cleveland – and Hank just goes off on
his church. “I hate my church. The music stinks. The pastor stinks. Everything
stinks. I hate going to church. I hate being there. Pastors stink. You stink.
Everything stinks.” And I just – I couldn’t believe it. I said, “Hank, here’s
the problem. You don’t like going to church because you’re cheating on your
wife and you’re running around being just a totally out of control sexual
deviant and you’re committing adultery and when you go to church, you feel
convicted. That’s why you don’t like the church. It’s a good church and the
pastor loves Jesus and he’s preaching the Bible and you feel guilty when you’re
there because you’re there with your wife. Don’t blame it on the church, repent
of your sin, otherwise God might kill you.”
Right? And this is Hank in Ohio. And I remember looking at the mic
going, “Oh, man! I never met Hank. I don’t know Hank.” These are my first words
to Hank and I’m like, “That just went across the whole country right there.”
I’m going, “Man, I hope that was God, not the taquito I ate for dinner, you
know, that, that right there could get me in some serious trouble,” and it gets
really quiet and I’m trying to figure out how to save this and then Hank goes,
“How did you know I was cheating on my wife?” I said, “Dude, that’s God. You
better knock it off. Better knock it off.” You know? But you don’t – I – you
don’t look for this stuff. Sometimes God just gives you something and you roll
with it.
I had another one, when we were over at the old building. The
church was just starting to grow. We had a couple services and I remember I did
one of the morning services and I was getting ready to do the other one and
this Asian family walks in and they all look exhausted and they’re all tired
and the kids are kinda falling asleep on mom and she looks tired and dad’s
there and he says, “I – we need to meet with you right now.” I said, “I can’t
meet right now, dude. I just got done with one service. I’m doing another
service. I don’t do meetings right now. I just got, like, a little bit of time
between the services.” He says, “God told us to come to you. We need the word
from a prophet.” I was like, “Well, if you find one, you know, tell him I said
‘Hi!’ and send him over. I got stuff I wanna ask him, too. I don’t got anything
for you, man. I’m not the prophet.” He says, “No, God said you’re the prophet
and you have the word for us.” I said, “Well, where are you from?” He said, “We
drove all night from Canada.” Apparently there are no prophets in Canada, so
they had to come down. I said, “Okay.” I said, “You drove all night?” He said,
“We drove all night,” from somewhere up in central Canada. I said, “Okay, so
that explains why you all look so tired. You’ve been in the car all night.” So
I didn’t know anything about this guy. I said, “Well, I’ll meet with you for a
few minutes, pray for you. I mean, least I could do, you drove all night with
your family.
Sat them on the couch. Prayed. Looked at them. Then went off on
this whole rant. I said, “Look, the church you’re in is a Godless church. They
have a hard heart. Some of the leaders have hidden, unconfessed, unrepentant
sin. They are just not participating with God. God needs to judge those
leaders, remove them, cleanse and purify the church, then if they are
repentant, he will grow it. If not, he will shut it down. You’re in the same
situation as Revelation 2 and 3. You, however, keep holding on to the church,
trying to salvage it and save it and make it work because you’re being proud
and you think that it’s a reflection of you. It’s not a reflection of you, it’s
a reflection of Jesus. You need to get out of the way. Quit your job. Jesus has
another job for you at this other church. You take that job. He’ll bless you
there. Get out of the way. Let him deal with this church. That’s what his word
is to you. You’re a pastor, right?” I mean, I didn’t know. I gave him this
whole thing and I’m like, “Are you a pastor?” He’s like, “Yeah.” I was like,
“Then that’s what it is.” So – and he gives me a big hug. He says, “Okay.
That’s what we’ve been wrestling with. We didn’t – I want to leave but I didn’t
know if it was me or the Lord that was moving me on and I needed confirmation.”
His wife’s crying. Gives me a big hug. She says, “In my heart, I knew that’s
what God had for us, but I didn’t wanna tell my husband because I wanted him to
hear from God. Thank you so much.” I pray for them. They go home and I see them
a few years later at a conference. He said, “Everything happened just like you
said. I’m at the other church. We’re happy. It’s growing. God’s blessing it.
Massive sin came out in the leadership of the other church. They now are in the
process of either repenting or not and the church is gonna live or die. It’s
teetering on the edge, just like you said.” I’m like, “Okey dokie. Okay.” You
know, I don’t understand this all the time.
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