Monday, June 27, 2016

Mark Driscoll and the influence of porn: revisiting William Wallace II's "Using Your Penis" and considering its manifold ironies for the present

Back on July 29, 2014 Wenatchee The Hatchet published a screen capture of an html sent from former participants on the old unmoderated discussion form Mars Hill had that was called Midrash.  Also sent to Wenatchee The Hatchet was a text file that saved the rest of the conversations from the topic that was known as "Using your penis".  There were a handful of things from the topic that made headlines a few years back but the overall content was not seriously considered.  Yes, it's easy for people to make jokes about women as "penis homes" but there was a larger argument that was made by William Wallace II. 

For those who want to review the start of "Using your penis" can be read after the break.  You may want to collapse all the right hand menus and so forth for this post.

So, here's a link to the old 2014 post:

Now here are selections from the old discussion:

 Author  Topic:   Using your penis 
 William Wallace II
 Member   posted 01-08-2001 10:59 PM             
 The first thing to know about your penis is, that despite the way it may seem, it is not your penis. Ultimately, God created you and it is His penis. You are simply borrowing it for a while.

 While His penis is on loan you must admit that it is sort of just hanging out there very lonely as if it needed a home, sort of like a man wandering the streets looking for a house to live in. Knowing that His penis would need a home, God created a woman to be your wife and when you marry her and look down you will notice that your wife is shaped differently than you and makes a very nice home.
 Therefore, if you are single you must remember that your penis is homeless and needs a home. But, though you may believe your hand is shaped like a home, it is not. [emphasis added] And, though women other than your wife may look like a home, to rest there would be breaking into another mans home. And, if you look at a man it is quite obvious that what a homeless man does not need is another man without a home. Paul tells us that your penis actually belongs to your wife, and once you are married she will trade you it for her home (I Corinthians 7:4), and every man knows this is a very good trade for him to make.

With his penis, the man is supposed to please his wife and learn how to be patient, self-controlled and be educated on how to keep his home happy and joyous (I Corinthians 7:3). The man should be aroused by his new home, and his wife should rejoice at seeing his penis rise to greet her (Song of Songs 5:14b).

William Wallace II
 Member   posted 01-09-2001 09:20 AM             
 That verse in the Song of Songs was translated by some cowards. She likens her husbands penis to hard white ivory. In your NIV the footnote at the botton says it's the "lapis lazuli" which is the penis. The Bible translators are so skiddish they couldn't actually say what the author said. They do the same thing with the woman's body in Song of Songs 7:2 where they say that her belly button is round, red, and moist with a sweet taste. Guess what, it's not her belly button. [emphasis added] Very sad, I'd have to say that if you can't just say what the Bible says but need to make it G-rated then you've got a low view of Scripture. 

 IP: Logged

William Wallace II
 Member   posted 01-18-2001 11:13 AM             
 Christian pornography. Christian phone sex. Christian cyber-sex. Christian lap dances.
 Someone recently asked me about these issues. And, they are quite valid.

 The problem with many unfaithful unmanly unmen is that they have heads filled with desires and dreams, but they marry a Christian women raised on a steady diet of gnosticism (so she hates her body) psychology (so she thinks too much before she climbs into bed) and guilt ridden don't have sex because it's a dirty nasty thing that God hates and makes you a slut youth group propaganda from hell/Family Books.

 So the poor guy is like a starving man who is told he can only eat once ever couple weeks and his restaurant only has one crummy unspiced bland item on the menu and he either eats it or starves to death.

 Bummer for that guy.

 What the guy wants is to see a stripper, a porno, and have some phone and cyber sex. What the guy needs is a good Christian woman. The kind of woman who knows that men like unclothed and sexually aggressive women. Why? Because they are breathing. As long as a man is alive he is ready for sex every minute of every day.

 Ladies, listen closely. The guy will never get the big dreams out of his head. He can either explore them with his wife, become bitter and sexually repressed, or sneak off to Deja Vu or log on to the net and escape in a moment of adventure. Birds fly, ducks float, dogs bark, and men think about sex every minute of every day because they have a magical ability to continually think of two things at one time, one of which is always sex. Any man who denies this is a liar or has broken plumbing.

 So it would behoove a good godly woman to learn how to strip for her husband. Some nice music, a couple of drinks, candlight and a wife who has thrown her youth group devotionals to the wind would be nice. Most women do not do this because they are uncomfortable with their bodies. [emphasis added] Know that for a man there are two variables with a woman's body. One, what does she have to work with? Two, how does she use it? Now I will tell you a secret, number two is the most important.

 How about a Christian guy who wants to watch porno? Maybe his wife should get a Polaroid and snap a few shots of her in various states of marital undress and bliss and sneak them into his Bible so that when the guy sits down to eat his lunch at work and read some Scripture he has reasons to praise God. Or, maybe if the lady would plug in a camcorder and secretly film herself showering, undressing, making love to her husband etc. she could give it to him when he's on the road for weeks at a time, or maybe just so the poor guy can see his wife as some undressed passionate goddess. I have yet to find a wife take me up on this be rebuked by her husband. [emphasis added]

 And what guy breaking his stones on the job every day wouldn't like a hot phone call from his wife now and then telling him in great detail what awaits him when he gets home. Or how about the occasional instant explicit message from his wife rolling across his screen giving him some reasons to expect that dessert will precede dinner that night. [emphasis added]

 Do you know why the adult entertainment industry is raking in billions of dollars? Because people like to have sex and have fun. Does it lead to sin? Yes. Can it lead to worship. Of course. If you resist this message, please stay single until you get your head straightened out. If you are married and fully constipated, bummer for you and your upcoming divorce.

William Wallace II
 Member   posted 01-20-2001 12:22 AM             
 Can a man have healthy, godly, physical lust for his wife. Yes. And he should. His imagination should be filled of redeemed images, images of his wife. And yes, her body. Not just a "chunk of flesh" but her body in passion as a woman devoted to him and entrusting herself to him at her moments of greatest vulnerability.

 A Christian married couple has tremendous freedom to explore all of their sexuality. The problem is that rarely are they encouraged to do so, and consequently one or both of them are filled with curious thoughts that they never pursue because they does not know the freedom that they have in Christ. Does the Spirit give a man strength to not sin. Of course.

 And one of the ways God helps a man not to sin is to give him a wife so that when he wants to see a naked woman, he can look at her. And, when he wants to touch a naked woman, he can touch her. And, if he has a curiousity he can explore it with her. Therefore, it greatly benefits the average Christian man to grow up early, prepare to care for a wife, and take one.

 Let's just be honest. The Christian divorce rate is now as high or higher than unbelievers. Porno has enslaved pretty much every young male in varying degrees. A recent survey also indicated that over half of evangelical pastors have committed adultery. This being so it is therefore not surprising that the pulpits in our day lack much clear and free teaching on sexual matters since so many servants of God are so compromised. And, what young men should not be told is to kill their desire, but to instead channel toward the covenant of marriage with a woman they adore and can trust with their desires.

 A couple may not use all of their freedom, which is fine. But, they may also use all of their freedom. Either way, they need to explore their desires and learn to serve each other so that bitterness does not develop and the enemy gain a foothold. I would also add that if you plan to be with one woman for 60 years you should plan on using your imagination to keep things fresh and growing like all other areas of the marriage.

 You may disagree. You are also single which may explain why. Until you take a wife I would encourage you to dream. [emphasis added] The beginning of the Song of Songs is prior to their marriage and includes very graphic details of what they long to explore together in their sexual covenant. Dream about being with a woman and enjoying her, and learning to satisfy her also. When this crosses over into looking at porno or fantasizing about a particular woman it is lust. If it does not cross that line then you are merely renewing your mind to be a husband.

 Lastly, can a man have sinful sex with his wife? If he harms her, if he is unloving, if he is unfaithful, if he is comparing her to other women, if he is degrading of her etc. of course. But, in 60 years of marriage the average couple will have some days where one person just really wants sex and jumps on the other. When you're married, it's a compliment. I know of no wife who doesn't like her husband to call during the day and tell her how he adores her body and can barely contain himself from jumping out of his skin because he wants to come home and explore her and enjoy her. I'd say it's flattering and reassuring.

 With all due respect, your head is tweaked. It is likely either by being raised in the church and having a poor understanding of sexaulity from teaching that had it's goal prevention rather than healthy worship. Or, porno and sinful relationships with women may be to blame. These are the two most frequent culprits these days.

Do you really think that if your mom slipped a photo of herself in your dad's briefcase before a long road trip that she would be a wicked woman and that him closing his eyes and dreaming about the body God gave her would be inappropriate? Grow up. [emphasis added]

It's a good question and I appreciate you asking it. But, it further proves the entire case I am making here as do most of the posts.

IP: Logged

There are a couple of ironies at play here.  Mark Driscoll, as William Wallace II, told a single person who was concerned about the possibility that some of the suggestions WWII made seemed like suggestions to make Christian pornography to grow up.  "With all due respect, your head is tweaked." 

Thanks to Real Marriage from 2012, we now have Mark and Grace Driscoll recounting that circa 2000-2001 Mark Driscoll was resenting his wife for their lack of a sex life of the sort he wanted. 

Real Marriage
Mark and Grace Driscoll
Copyright (c) 2012 by On Mission, LLC
Thomas Nelson
ISBN 978-1-4002-0383-3
ISBN 978-1-4041-8352-0 (IE)

page 9-10
To be honest, fornicating was fun. I liked fornicating. To stop fornicating was not fun. But eventually Grace and I stopped fornicating, got engaged, and were married between our junior and senior years of college.

I assumed that once we were married we would simply pick up where we left off sexually and make up for last time. After all, we were committed Christians with a relationship done God's way.
But God's way was a total bummer. My previously free and fun girlfriend was suddenly my frigid and fearful wife. She did not undress in front of me, required teh lights to be off on the rare occasions we were intimated, checked out during sex, and experience da lot of physical discomfort because she was tense. [emphasis added]

Before long I was bitter against God and Grace. It seemed to me as if they had conspired to trap me. I had always been the "good guy" who turned down women for sex. In my twisted logic, I had been holy enough, and god owed me. I felt God had conned me by telling me to marry Grace, and allowed Grace to rule over me since she was controlling our sex life. [emphasis added] I loved Grace, but in the bedroom I did not enjoy her and wondered how many years I couild white-knuckle fidelity. ... We desperately needed help but didn't know where to turn. Bitterness and condemnation worsened.

page 121
... When we married, I (Mark) tended toward sex as god. I was a newer Christian who had accumulated most of his knowledge about sex from culture, locker-room talk, and sinning sexually with a few young women. Conversely, Grace was raised in a home that was religiously conservative when it came to sex, had sinned sexually, and had been sinned against sexually. She considered sex gross. For her I was too much sexually. For me she was too little sexually. We made very little progress for many years until we had spent considerable time talking through our sexual history and beliefs, working together through many hours in the Bible and Christian books to arrive at a unified view of sex as gift.  Once we came to the same place in our thinking about sex, we began to work as allies instead of enemies. Our marriage has never been the same since, and our sex gets better all the time.

When we got married, I (Grace) didn't understand the physical and emotional aspects of sex for men. It seemed with his high sex drive that was all Mark wanted from me and that he didn't appreciate anything else I did. His drive seemed to get stronger the less we had sex, and I wondered if it was an idol to him or if that was normal for me. [emphasis added] I later realized it was partially a real physical need, not an obsession, since he wasn't masturbating  or getting relief some other way, which I am thank for. I read somewhere that if you have sex more, it actually decreases the necessity for frequent sex over time for most men. I tried that but it didn't seem to change anything for Mark.

page 164
As with many things in marriage, communication is key. When I cam to the conclusion that the cure for a lot of my moodiness was having more frequent sex with my wife, I simply told her. Yes, it's that simple. For years, when I would endure depression, I tried to talk to Grace about it. Her natural inclination was to want to have long talks about our feelings toward each other, and I know that connecting with her like this is important. But sometimes I was jsut too frustrated and ended up blowing up and hurting her feelings. The truth was I wanted to have more frequent sex with my life, and we needed to discuss how that could happen.

To make matters worse, seemingly every book I read by Christians on sex and marriage sounded unfair. Nearly every one said the husband had to work very hard to understand his wife, to relate to her, and when he did that to her satisfaction then, maybe, she would have sex with him as a sort of reward. After many years I finally told Grace that I needed more sex. I asked if we could have sex more days of the week and try a variety of positions. She'd be the one to decide exactly how we would be together> Grace said that helped her think about our intimacy throughout the course of the day, which helped prepare her mind and body. To our mutual delight, we discovered that both of us felt closer more loved and understood, and were more patient with each other if we were together regularly in some way. And whether my depression was testosterone-induced or not, I just generally felt happier.

For a wife, sex comes out of a healthy relationship, whereas, for a husband, it leads to one

So the first level of irony was that Mark Driscoll, as William Wallace II, was deigning in the "Using Your Penis" thread to instruct men how to use their penises as if he himself were totally happy with his own sex life.  It's difficult to get any other impression from William Wallace II's tone. 

The second irony was that, according to the Driscoll's in their 2012 book Real Marriage, Mark Driscoll didn't know his wife had been sexually abused. It's just that ... Grace Driscoll had a deacon profile up back in December 2000 and ...

and Dan Allender was listed as among her favorite authors.  For Mark Driscoll to not put together at any point between 1996 and 2006 that his wife had a favorite author who was known within evangelical publishing as a specialist in counseling adult victims of childhood sexual abuse seems difficult to entirely buy. 

But the third irony may be the one that is both most obvious and least obvious, the extent to which Mark Driscoll's praise for ways wives can celebrate their sexuality for and with their husbands through things like polaroids of themselves naked slipped in as Bible bookmarks, or actually filming themselves while having sex. Cumulative these look like cases from Mark Driscoll, as William Wallace II for the legitimacy of what "normal people" might call Christian porn.  Within marriage, of course.  Anyone who proposed that such an approach might be inconsistent with traditional understandings of Christian scripture was told they were basically "tweaked in the head".  Meanwhile ... by Grace Driscoll's account she was wondering if her husband had made sex a god. 

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