Sunday, December 28, 2014

2-5-2008 spiritual warfare Part 3 part 3 commentary 2: "I see things" but did the things Driscoll saw ever lead to arrests?

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On occasion I see things. I see things. Like I was meeting with one person, and they didn't know this but they were abused when they were a child and I said, "When you were a child, you were abused. This person did this to you, physically touched you this way." They said, "How do you know?" I said, "I don't know, it's like I got a TV right here and I'm seeing it." They said, "No, that never happened." I said, "Go ask them. Go ask if they actually did what I think they did and I see that they did."  They went and asked this person, "When I was a little kid did you do this?" and the person said, "Yeah [slowly], but you were only like a year or two old. How do you remember that?" They said, "Well, Pastor Mark told me." I'm not a guru. I'm not a freak. I don't talk about this. If I did talk about it everybody'd want to meet with me and I'd end up like one of those guys on TV, but some of you have this visual ability to see things.

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Sometimes your counselee, they will see things. I found this with people, I'm, okay,-like, "I'm gonna ask the demon questions, you tell me what they say."  They don't say anything. I say, "What do you hear?" and they say, "Nothing, but I'm seeing stuff."
"What, oh, oh. What's that?"
"I'm seeing, you know, when I was little, my grandpa molested me. I didn't know that."


I said, "Well, let's not assume it's true. Go ask your grandpa." Grandpa says, "Yeah [slowly], when you were little I molested you." Grandpa was assuming they'd be too young to remember so he'd only molest grandkids up until a certain age. But they saw it. Supernatural. It's a whole other realm. It's like the Matrix. You can take the blue pill. You can take the red pill.  You can go into this whole other world and that's the way it works.

There's a subtle yet obvious contrast that seems evident in these two anecdotes.  When the first person said "that never happened" in response to Driscoll's alleged discernment, the story ends with the counselee going and getting confirmation straight from the abuser that what Driscoll saw really happened.  It's as though in Mark Driscoll's world sexual abusers of children all remember what they did and immediately admit to whatever they did to people who were too young to even be able to remember what was done to them.

Did these visions of long-ago memories fall well beyond any statutes of limitation for arrests?  Given the nature of what things Driscoll has claimed to be able to see, if there was any credibility to the visions, some of them seem like they should have led to actual arrests and yet there's never been any indication something like that has happened.

Of course given the cases that did go to court over recovered memories and the monetary losses that happened to the counselors who staked their reputations on cases they couldn't back up in court maybe the last thing Mark Driscoll would have wanted to do would be to have any of his claims to spiritual discernment required to become relevant testimony in a court hearing.  But if it's all true and he's got the witnesses ... why not?  What's there to lose?

After all, not everything Driscoll claimed to have seen via discernment was even something from the past:

Upon occasion when I get up to preach I see, just like a [makes "whif" sound] screen in front of me, I'll see somebody get raped or abused and I'll track `em down and say, "Look, I had this vision, let me tell you about it." All true.  One I had, I was sitting in my office at the old Earl building.  This gal walks by, nice gal, member of the church. This was when the church was small.  And there just like a TV was there and I saw the night before her husband threw her up against the wall, had her by the throat, was physically violent with her and she said, "That's it. I'm telling the pastor." And he said, "If you do, I'll kill you." He was a very physically abusive man. She was walking by and I just saw it. Just like a TV.  I said, "Hey! come here for a sec. ... Last night did your husband throw you against the wall and have you by the throat, physically assault you and tell you if you told anyone he would kill you?" She just starts bawling. She says, "How did you know?" I said, "Jesus told me." I call the guy on the phone, "Hey, I need you to come to the office." Didn't give him any clue. [He] comes in. I said, "What did you do to your wife last night?  Why'd you this? Why'd you throw her against the wall?" And he gets very angry, they're sitting on the couch, he says, "Why did you tell him?"  I said, "She didn't, Jesus did." Jesus did. 

Wenatchee The Hatchet is of the opinion that it would be stupid to invite a man suspected of being a physically abusive husband to meet and then play "gotcha" with him in a meeting including the man's wife and NOT expect him to blame the wife even after you've invoked some divinely granted oracle.  What critics of Mark Driscoll's pornovision stories may have forgotten, in some cases, to address is that not all the stories were of sexual abuse.  Some involved physical violence and in at least one case the domestic violence was something Driscoll claimed he was shown the night after the incident. 

Whatever may have taken place or not taken place in response to Driscoll's claims to divinely given insight into events and people, the most potentially harmful thing from Driscoll's talk of "i see things" to Mars Hill elders in 2008 wasn't what he was saying he was able to do but what he told his audience of pastors they might be able to do.

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