February 5, 2008
Pastor Mark Driscoll
Christus Victor (Part 3)
THE GROUND RULES
And then I establish the ground rules. Can you imagine walking into a trial, say there's somebody who's just evil, and they were in a trial. Can you imagine if there were no rules, no bailif, no judge, right? They weren't shackled up, can you imagine what a trial would look like?
It would be insane. People who do demonic counseling and don't say, "Holy Spirit's bailif, you know, Jesus is the judge, I'm here as attorney doing questioning," people who don't set it up as a trial, that's where it goes nuts. This is literally, I know pastors--this is where the 110 pound lady picks up the 300 pound Baptist pastor and throws him across the office and he's laying on his back going, "Apparently, I did something wrong." Yeah, ya did. It's the same as bringing in a mass murderer for trial no bailiff, no shackles, no cop,
no gun, no judge, you're just gonna talk to him. Well it's gonna get crazy. If the authority's from Jesus we don't let Satan and demons show off. We don't. We don't let `em boast, brag, hurt people, intimidate people. It's a trial. The goal is to get the truth, sentence them, and send them away. That's all.
So I establish the ground rules. I just literally say this: in the name of the Lord Jesus, who is Christ (I'll be using the personal pronoun `we' because I stand with, and then I name the person--and I always have someone there with me who's a godly witness. If they're married and they have a good spouse, I have their spouse there. Dear friend of theirs, fellow pastor, one or two people as witnesses.) I stand with them as their brother in Jesus Christ and since the Holy Spirit lives in us both we command you in the name and authority of the one true God who rules as Father, Son and Spirit, you're an unwanted intruder who is going to have to leave upon command."
And then I lay down the ground rules, right? Court is now in session, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, right? Test the spirits, here's the ground rules--you remember those guys, in the, remember the seven sons of Sceva in the New Testament? No ground rules, they walk and "Hey, are you a demon?" and they then get, like, beat up bloodied running for their life naked. You don't want to be that guy, or gal.
You don't wanna be that. Lay down rules. Before you start talking to a demon lay down some rules by the authority of God through Jesus Christ and enforced by the Holy Spirit.
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ we establish authority over Satan, sin and demons delegated to us by the Lord Jesus Christ, that I am in Christ, Christ is in me, that all that is under his feet is under my feet. He says, "I have given you authority to trample on scorpions and sermons (that's demons, Luke)". I bind the strong man. Jesus talks about the strong man, whatever demon is in the highest ranking authority. Demons are organized like military, there are those who lead and there are those who follow. I don't want to waste my time going after every buck private. I want to know who's in charge and I want to get this over with. Some people I know don't do this and they end up going for HOURS, ten, twelve, fourteen hour meetings. No way, Satan loves to show off. He'll send up all the buck privates for trial first. You're exhausted, worn out and confused by the time you even get to a general.
"I command that you convey your answers to the person and they will convey your answers to me. You will not speak to me because you're on trial and under the authority delegated to me by the Lord Jesus Christ." To engage a demon directly, that elicits their pride. You must speak to the person, the person serves as translator, they tell you what they're hearing or seeing. If Satan's been lying, accusing, condemning them they're listening to him all the time, or I should say a demon, they're listening him all the time anyways so may as well have them tell you what they're hearing and the answers that are being conveyed. Think of it like a translator.
"I command that you not change your authority structure, hide, duplicate your identity or change your name."
If you don't do this they'll send up one demon; he'll say, "My name's Hank"; he'll send up another demon who'll say, "My name's Hank"; and you'll think, "Oh, we--it's failing. They're not going." Well, that's cuz they're changing their name. They'll invert their authority structure and say I command the one who's in charge and they'll invert their authority structure and just like in a war, if you capture a bunch of POWs, you say "Who's the general?" Well they put the general hat on a buck private because nobody cares if he takes one and all of a sudden the general's dressed up like a buck private hoping not to get, you know, brought to trial. No inverting the authority structure, no changing the names, no alteration of the truth.
There will be no profanity. I don't want to hear `em curse God and Jesus this and Jesus that. No way. I don't wanna do that.
You will answer every question directed to you clearly, concisely, immediately, completely, truthfully. Saying I want an answer right now
and I want the truth. I don't want you to wait for ten hours and try and exhaust me and wear me down.
I command you not have any outside help or reinforcement during this trial. I don't need more demons showing up in my office to join in on the party. We're not doing that.
I command that the answers you give stand as truth before the white throne of God almighty. Some will say you don't ask any questions of the demon because they're liars and they lie and I say, "I know they lie but when they stand before the white throne of God mentioned in Revelation, all truth will be known and I check it by that." I'll show you how that's done.
When convicted there will be one-way traffic only from the demon to the pit. You're not gonna go bother anyone else at any time, especially those in the room and our families. You're not gonna enter another person, you're not gonna hassle other people. Worst thing you can do is cast a demon out and not send it to the pit. You cast a demon out it just goes to, I dunno, one of your kids. Somebody else.
Bind you by any name you give and name you if needed. Some demons in the Bible, we don't know their names. Some, we do. Jesus calls one "Legion". We know Satan's name. I ask `em "What is your name?" If they don't they don't tell me I'll give `em a name. Sometimes it's a stall tactic to make this thing last forever.
... I commanded you to speak only which can be used against you. I don't want to hear about all the stuff you've done, and how many generations you've been at work, and how many children you've molested, and how many women you've raped, how many men you've turned into addicts, and how many people you've gotten to kill themselves, I don't want to hear your boasting, just your condemnation. I just wanna know what I need to know so I can sentence you, that's all. And my goal in knowing this is not any other purpose than for the counselee to know this is a real demon, it's really been at work, here's all the bad things he said, done. I shouldn't say "he", it. I think they're gender neutral, they're not male or female. They may manifest as male or female but they're spirits. They don't have the anatomical structure that we do. I just want the person to know what's been going on so that they don't ever mess around with a demon again.
I bind you by the ground rules we laid down. Command there be control of the mind, confusion of the mind, tongue or the body and that the person will maintain complete self-control and they won't undergo any harm. I don't want their eyes rolling back in their head, I don't want their voice changing. I don't want their mind confused. Sometimes I'll tell people, "Okay (in the middle of it) here, read this psalm. [They] say, "I can't even see it. I can't see." And then they go blind. They can't hear things. They go deaf. Get rid of all of that with ground rules. Just all stall tactics. Again, imagine having a trial with no rules, no bailiff and no shackles. Craziness.
You'll take all of your associates and all of their collective works with you. So if I get the demon who is in charage I want all the associate demons working with them and all of their works and effects to go, meaning if you made `em sick, take the sickness. If you gave them some sort of chronic ailment, rather, take it with you. I command you to take it all with you.
And I ask the Holy Spirit. You don't command the Holy Spirit, you lay down the ground rules and command the demon, you don't command the Holy Spirit to do anything, he's God. You ask him to rule over all the spirits, force them to cooperate according to the ground rules, and punish any who seek to disobey. So I lay down the ground rules after sharing the Gospel explaining to the person what we're gonna do.
That means we tell `em we're gonna see if demons are working in your life. And we're gonna have a trial. We're gonna do 1 John 4. We're gonna test the spirits. We're gonna do it by Ephesians 6. We're gonna use faith and prayer and the Bible and Jesus. This isn't gonna be crazy or funky. I'm gonna ask you questions. You're gonna tell me the answers. We're gonna confess sin, repent of it, pray and get this junk outta your life. We're just gonna use the gospel.
I then make declarations of truth. We declare the following as the truth before the white throne, that's the judgment seat of the Lord God almight:
1. Luke 8:18-20 we claim protection from and authority over Satan and demons. Jesus says "I have given you authority over Satan and demons."
2. We claim our position in Christ and all things that are under Christ's authority are under our authority, Ephesians 1:18-28. Sometimes
I'll just read these verses and just explain them, that Christ is over all and that I am seated with Christ and so it is under me as well. That's where Paul the Corinthians that Christians will even judge the what? The angels, he says. So in judging demons we're not doing anything we weren't made to do. We are going to judge the angels in the end. Perfectly fine to judge a few in the middle as well.
And we claim our victory in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's Colossians 2:13-15. That he disarmed the powers, the demons that were at war against us. He took away our sin and he has crushed Satan and demons and Jesus' victory is ours.
Then I ask them this, and this comes out of their homework: give me the two or three primary areas that are most troubling. If you want to deal with one thing, two things, three things, what the big thing you wanna get rid of that's killing ya? What's the place we start? I start with the big issue rather than the little issue so that we can get off to a good start but they're not exhausted. We build some momentum.
That they see what we are doing works.
I then ask them to confess sins and cancel ground and command leaving one at a time. `s all before we start, "How did you open the door?" proverbially speaking? "Well, it was I committed adultery then after that I started having nightmares."
"Well, guess what? Probably a connection there, huh? Probably opened the door with adultery. Have you ever really repented of that to Jesus and asked him to forgive you?"
"Well let's do that right now. Let's stop right now and have you repent of that sin, ask Jesus to forgive you. He died. Receive forgiveness."
Let's get--cuz, see, Satan and demons, with a believer, in addition to external torment and such, most of what they have is what we've given them by opening the door through sin.
"Well then, confess it is a sin. Let's kick `em out, lock the door but you gotta straighten this out with Jesus. You gotta repent."
So a good chunk of time is just spent on repentence of particular sin. It's all it is. Getting rid of those handholds and footholds.
I then ask them a series of questions. This is where we start, number ten. I'll usually check with ancestral sin. I'm looking at their past.
Now if they come from ten generations of third degree Masons I'm startin' there. If they're grandma was into witchcraft and their mama was into witchcraft and they have some demonic issues it shouldn't be shocking to think that this has been an issue in their family for a while.
I know one family where incest was just part of the family. They actually had very intricate rules to control incest. The grandfathers and uncles could molest little girls but daddies couldn't and you could only do that once they hit the age of ten. You couldn't molest any child before that. I get these complicated rules that have been passed down for generations for the sexual abuse of the children. You're like, this, your struggle here, your temptations, your issues, they have generational lineage.
There are whole family lines that are just demonically inspired. You ever wonder why, in the Old Testament, God will occasionally tell his people, "When you go to war against that nation kill ALL of them. Don't let one of them live." People say, "Oh, oh that's terrible." Not if that whole line is demonized. Not if that whole line of people exists for the express purpose of fighting God and killing his people. The issue is either you get rid of them or they get rid of you. Satan is inspiring them to destroy you and you gotta get rid of them. Satan DOES work through family lines. There are family lines like the Herods who, just from one generation to the next, they're trying to kill Jesus and his people. Some of the family fights in Genesis, they continue all the way to this day. Not saying every person in the family line is demonized, but it seems like Satan likes to work through family lines, ancestral sin.
To begin then, I'll find the area of deepest root, for the deepest root. If it's ancestral I start there and I have `em pray after me. Much of our time is spent praying. I have `em pray something like this: Lord Jesus, if there are any spirits who have anything to do with me (body, soul or spirit) because of ancestral sin or whatever the sin is (sexual sin, adultery, drugs, whatever it is) I ask that you forgive this sin and cancel any ground that may have been held against me.
And I have them repeat after me: If there are any demons working in me in the area of (whatever it is--sex, drugs, alcohol, you know, night terrors, clairvoyance, visions, pedophilia, whatever it is, witchcraft, whatever) we bind all of you together, along with all your work and effects and command you to come forward.
I then say we all, now, this is the declaration for the trial, we now command that that spirit holding highest authority of all those bound and brought forward in the area of (whatever the issue is) to step forward alone. We put a hedge of thorns (this is Jesus' language) around you, above you, below you. You're not to be interfered with by anyone. That's what I'm looking for, here's the big issue, I want that spirit who's in charge (other spirits working under it), I want to deal with the boss. I don't wanna deal with everybody. When I get rid of the boss I want everybody and all their works to go with him. I say, "Now I command that spirit holding highest authority of all those bound and brought forward" and then I always ask it this way, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (and he's the judge. I'm just the, I'm the cross-examining attorney in this trial. He's the judge.) In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ ... " and then I start asking questions.
What is your name? First question
... I tell `em, "If you don't hear anything don't say anything. Don't make anything up." But I'll look at the person ... "Do you hear anything?" Okay, what is it? It's amazing, they'll just go and tell me a name. They tell me a name I write it down. They don't tell me a name I'll ask again, pray, ask again, if I don't get anything, move on. Not making anything up, just double checking. Just double checking.
In saying this, some of you right now are hearing things in your own mind. This is what happens. Some of you hear things all the time.
Is it Satan? I don't know. What is he saying? What's your name? Tell me the name. Write it down.
Next question, then I ask, "Will that stand as truth before the white throne of the Lord God almighty?" When we stand before Jesus will that be what is said? And if they don't give me a name, like I had one person and I said, you know, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ what is your name?" here's what they heard, "I'm not tellin`" [slight laughter in the audience]. I said, "That's okay, I'm gonna name you. This is a stall tactic. I'll call you whatever I'm gonna call you and we'll move on." You're responded to this name or I've given you this name, we bind you that name. Upon command, you'll go to the pit bound by that name with all of your works and effects, all of your associates, and all of their works and effects as well.
Next question question I'll ask, "When did you come to them?" And you know what's amazing to me with this, most of the time I get year, month, date and sometimes hour. It is unbelievably precise. If it's ancestral it'll be in the womb or birth. If it's at some point in life--I mean I've heard things like, (and I'm, like, making up the day) "Well on March 27th of 1983 they were seven years old and when their uncle molested them that's when I came." Hmm. They'll just, the person'll just say this and I'll say, "Okay, when were you born?" We work backward, make sure it's true. "I was born in 1980 and they say they came 1987." "Yeah" "March 23, is that when your uncle molested you?" "Uh, uncle molested me, that sounds right, yeah. Yeah, it was at my cousin's birthday party and his birthday's March 23. That's true."
You'll get that kind of detail. [pause] you get that kind of detail. [WtH, Driscoll talked in such a swift slur here that this is probably an approximation compared to other sections and paragraphs.]
"Will that stand as truth before the white throne of the Lord God Almighty? Yes or no?" That's how I ask it. They'll say, "Yes." I heard "yes". "No" I heard "no". Okay, then I go after it, what's the truth?
You hear weird things, too. Things that you wouldn't have expected. Some of `em you don't expect, like (I'm working out of stories trying not to reveal people but like) talking to one person, said, "I came to him this date, this year, they were this age." I said, "Okay, where were they? What were they doing?" I'll start asking follow up questions. "Well it was when they were at the neighbors house playing with so-and-so." Hmm. I'll ask them the story of the person that one person asked. So you're playing at so-and-so's house. What happened? "Well, yeah, so-and-so, their whole family was into Wicca and their mom ran a New Age bookstore and I'd go to their house and play and then, you know, as kids we started taking our clothes off and touching one another and then they brought me to the Wiccan store, the New Age bookstore, and the mom started teaching us how to do seances and clairvoyant and how to call down spirits and to do white magic (as if there were good demons)."
Yeah, that definitely would be opening the door, for sure.
You start hearing very specific dark details of in people's lives and sometimes you'll hear things that they were too young to remember.
And so rather than just believing them you gotta do your homework to make sure they're true and so I'll send people. Go ask your grandpa
when you were one and a half if he molested you. Get the truth. How did the door get open? What happened? What happened?
Other people, they'd say, I remember one person, the door got opened, it was drugs. They'd go into this altered state of consciousness and they thought they were having these crazy trips. It was very spiritual. They were involved in Rastafarianism for a while. Things like that, things like that.
"When did you come?" I want to know what opened the door. Why do I want to know that? I want to know so when we kick this person out they keep that door shut. Like, look, if it was sex or drugs or witchcraft or, you know, whatever it was that opened the door, let's shut the door and let's never open that door again. I need `em to know how they got into trouble so that they can stay out of it.
I then ask, "What works were you commissioned to do?" What were you trying to do? Sometimes it's "I came to make `em sick. I came to get `em to kill themselves. I came to ruin their family. I came to get them to be drug addicts. I came to get them to molest children." All this kinda crap. "I came to get them to rape people. I was on a mission and I had a job and my job was do something to them get them to become destructive in some way." Check, will that stand as truth before the Lord God Almighty? I'm taking notes the whole time.
And this is a counseling session, guys. I'm sitting there asking questions and the people are answering them. That's all that's going on. If you walk by my office you would see nothing but me and a person having a conversation. That's it.
I say, then I ask, "By what means had you hoped to destroy them?" and I hear the most grievous parts of people's lives.
"Well, you know, I wanted their uncle to molest them so then they'd be depressed and commit suicide."
"Is that true? Did your uncle molest you?"
"Have you tried to kill yourself?"
"What do you think about when you're trying to kill yourself?"
"When I try to kill myself I think about my uncle molesting me."
"Well, that's demonic."
"Well, I wanted them to drink themselves to death and just become a total sexual pervert and get a venereal disease and die." That's them.
"Well, do you have a pattern in your life of getting drunk and waking up with people you don't know?"
"Well. That was a plan. That was a tactic. You're enemy is working on you. He's baiting your hook of flesh. His goal is to destroy you. This is the plan."
You'll hear how the enemy has sought to destroy them.
"What habitual lives have you told them?" This is super helpful, I mean, I make a list. I start hearing, "You're fat, you're stupid, you're ugly, you're worthless. You should die." All of that, Revelation 12:10 accusation stuff, it just starts flowing out. It's crazy how it flows out. I'll ask, "What's the most powerful lie or accusation you've used against them?" and the big one comes and, almost invariably, the person then just starts bawling. They just start weeping. Sometimes it's things they've never told anyone but it's just absolutely destroyed them and they realize it came from Satan.
I dealt with one girl, years ago. She was repeatedly sexually abused as a child and then raped and a couple of the older men (I think it was an uncle and a grandpa) who would molest, after they were done with her they would say, this is what they'd tell her, "You're a dirty girl. That's why I make you do dirty things." She grew up, she was a very perverted girl, very sexually active, way out of control and I was talking to her and I asked the spirit. She had all kinds of supernatural issues and clairvoyance and she was really in trouble. I asked, I said, "What is the most effective lie or accusation you tell her?" And they said, "You're a dirty girl, I said, so you do dirty things." I said, "Well Jesus died for all your sins and he cleanses you from all your unrighteousness. That's a lie. You're not a dirty girl and you don't need to do dirty things. You're not a dirty girl and you don't need to do dirty things but if you believe that lie and accusation you're going to live as a dirty girl who does dirty things."