Saturday, March 30, 2013

Three Ways to Keep Your Sheep from Getting Stolen?

http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/three-ways-to-keep-your-sheep-from-getting-stolen/

...
Church hopping and sheep stealing doesn’t have to be inevitable. But it will require doing at least three things differently.

1. Build Community they Don’t Want to Leave
Think of the closest community that you have ever experienced. Maybe it was your traveling basketball team in high school, your best friends from college, or the connections you made on a mission trip. Do you remember that heartwrenching feeling you had when it was time to leave that community?

Hmm, only sort remember things being heartwrenching when a tight-knit community splintered.

What if:
-You lived down the street from, or even in the same house, as the other members of your church?

-You saved the money you would spend on buying tools and borrowed your hammers and drills from a member of your church community?

-You were more concerned about the churches shared mission than your own careers?
It’s hard to leave a community that close.

Wenatchee distinctly recalls exactly such a place ... about twelve years ago but it mutated and mushroomed into something completely unrecognizable now.

Engaging people in meaningful mission is includes facilitating church programs, but it is much more. The example of Jesus teaches us that mission is inseparable from incarnation. For a church to be a missional people, they must be engaged in displaying Christ in their unique time and place.
This means developing a vision for representing Jesus in the church’s neighborhood. It also means equipping individuals to represent Jesus in the schools, workplaces, gyms and bars they inhabit every day.

It’s hard to walk away once you’re are a part of a mission

But having a mission is not enough. It has to be a shared mission. This grows out of a process of listening for the Holy Spirit as a community, and engaging the gifts of the entire body of Christ.

It becomes important what the nature of the shared mission is and who gets to define how on mission people are. You see, when you've been part of a community that had a meaningful mission and had the level of closeness that is presented as a thing to aspire to then we get the small-town outcast dynamic.  The people who don't fit in really, really don't fit in.  It's also possible, of course, that once you're not on mission then you can find yourself, as someone into vision-casting once put it, unemployed. 

Let’s stop lamenting when sheep get stolen or people church shop, and focus on being a tight-knit missional body that is really hard to leave.

That's no longer good enough a measure for Wenatchee's observation.  Sometimes the missional body that is really hard to leave has to be left, and sometimes its a tight-knight missional body that can make you really regret you were ever in it.  After all, it's not that difficult a move from a tight-knit missional body that is really hard to leave to a draconian cult that won't let you leave without impugning you on your way out.  Wenatchee didn't actually have that problem ... but knows a few people who did. 

That churches can become surrogate families in a highly mobile post-industrial time and place where we find ourselves habitually alineated and physically remote from our own flesh and blood makes it remarkably easy to understand why in the North American continent obsession with spiritual community as a surrogate family or extended family has become so popular.  For people who have actually lived in extended family systems through economic and social necessity a great deal of "community" talk can seem unfortunately daft.  It's less romantic when it's your only realistic social and economic option though you don't appreciate it less for that.  People living in community with shared tools are not the sort to wax poetic about fair-trade coffee as a general rule.  :)























David Fitch on Keller as a Niebuhrian

http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/is-tim-keller-a-niebuhrian-post-2-on-center-church/

An interesting read, this, though for those already willing to just wade into a presentation with terms already understood.  Wenatchee can do that but actual commentary may be saved for later. It's been a while since we've linked to Fitch (which has, in hindsight, been overdue). 

Edith Schaeffer: 1914-2013

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2013/03/goodbye-mom-edith-schaeffer-1914-2013-rip/

Frank Schaeffer has written about the passing of his mother. 

A Call for Reconciliation, more than a year later

http://marshill.com/2012/03/02/a-call-for-reconciliation

Dear Mars Hill,
Lately, we’ve gotten some negative press regarding two specific church discipline cases, which has led to speculation regarding and criticism of our church discipline process. In each of the stories surrounding these cases both in various blogs and in the news media, there has unfortunately been some misinformation. Such is the nature of commenting and reporting on private issues between two parties, especially when it comes to issues that are emotionally charged to begin with.

Private issues between two parties was what would have been the case had Andrew not been brought into the Mars Hill disciplinary process to begin with.  As Mars Hill ought to know by now posting any document or statement of any kind on to The City isn't in any way private. 

Some of the misinformation, such as whether or not staff were let go in connection to the disciplinary cases of Andrew or Lance, may have come from the Mars Hill side.  After all, there was that clarification of the clarification that the two staff let go for a pattern of overstepping spiritual authority weren't in any way connected to the Andrew Lamb or Lance cases.

Rather than try and defend ourselves or refute misinformation, we simply wish to say that as a church, we’re saddened by this continual attempt to drag into public very private and sensitive issues that were church matters. As with any story that has two sides, the natural tendency is for people to lean toward their prejudices. If they don’t like Mars Hill, these stories will serve to cement their beliefs regardless of what we say. For those who are part of Mars Hill and love the church, there is a tendency to take the defensive.

It wasn't that private that Andrew and his girlfriend were together if she was blogging about it.  The tendency to take the defensive was certainly a real concern, as a few people were quite content to imply Andrew gave his girlfriend a venereal disease or to declare that Andrew had sex with multiple partners without any clarification of what evidence there was for this.  Questions about whether or not the girlfriend could have lied never seemed to come up for people within Mars Hill. 

Rather than attack or defend, we wish to reconcile. We are saddened that in some cases people have been hurt, both people who are no longer at Mars Hill Church and those who still call us their church home. While we reiterate that the overwhelming majority of our church discipline cases are healthy and restorative, there are certainly times where things don’t go as they should—both from our end and from the end of those who are in the process.

If they were serious about not wishing to attack or defend then opening with a statement about misinformation in the earlier paragraphs was unnecessary, wasn't it? 

To our critics, we’d humbly ask you to imagine how complicated situations such as this are for us. When someone says they have a issue with us, they get to tell the media their side of the story. If we tell the other side of the story, we risk breaching laws and exposing people—both the people in the discipline process and the people they’ve sinned against—to public backlash. The choice for us as a church is often to either take the hits in the press or put one of our members forward (often a young woman sexually sinned against) to let our members take the hits and endure the criticism. Obviously, we’d rather take the hits as a church than expose our members to the media and potentially break the law by divulging private information shared in a counseling session by a victim.

So Mars Hill didn't want to put forward a member to endure criticism but they also, evidently, really didn't want to just sit by and take public criticism over something that would have stayed private if a document hadn't been posted to The City to begin with.  All that backlash could have been avoided if Mars Hill had just let someone leave who wanted to leave.  It's not like that didn't happen at any point in the previous eight years.

But in the case of Andrew, the Noriegas had blogged and tweeted about their respective relationships to Andrew before he even made a confession and before anyone got into the escalating disciplinary situation at Mars Hill.  Mars Hill leaders and members had eliminated privacy by divulging in broadcast media the nature of their respective connections to an Andrew.  For that matter even Driscoll sermons referred to aspects of the Noriega story.  The call for reconciliation rang hollow not just because many former members viewed it as a publicity tactic to quell further bad press but also because Mars Hill had spent a decade publicizing as an institution and among its members the very things that, when press coverage was suddenly more widespread and negative, was supposed to be "private". 

Here’s the bottom line: we love people. Our goal is always repentance and reconciliation in the discipline process and that the process would be loving, grace-filled, and reflect the heart of Jesus. We don’t always get it right. But, in this instance we ask that you would pray for your leaders, love your city, and wait until we all stand before Jesus to get the facts and a clear verdict.

It hasn't always been clear that the goal of the discipline process or termination process is repentance and reconciliation or what those two terms necessarily mean.  Someone got some audio to Chris Rosebrough at Fighting for the Faith that has also made its way to Joyful Exiles. How interested in reconciliation did Driscoll sound the day after the firings? 

Naturally, we’ve been following these stories closely, and a handful of people have stepped out to discuss their experiences. Quoted in various sources are people who’ve given their stories anonymously. Since we don’t know who they are, we’d love to meet with them and serve them and begin a process of reconciliation. So please, if you’re reading this, do let us know who you are so we can do all we can to love you by sitting down to meet, listen, and serve. For the two mentioned in the KOMO story, we’d love to meet with you also to do the same.

Andrew Lamb was not actually all that anonymous even when he and Turner attempted to make his story anonymous.  This was because at Mars Hill Ballard there were only two guys in leadership who were in second marriages, which made it possible to narrow the field down to Noriega even after Noriega was apparently fired some time in September 2011. Why Andrew would have wanted to meet with Mars Hill leadership and a culture that posted a notice of shunning to The City isn't a question MH seems to have given much serious thought about.  Mars Hill didn't thrill to the idea that the media had hostile people in the press and on blogs badmouthing them without stopping even a moment to consider that this could have been doing to them what they'd already done to Andrew?  If Andrew chose to leave the church and end his membership what was to stop Mars Hill from just letting him go? 

Then again, Mars Hill had a history of posting significant announcements about shunning people who ended membershil while under discipline before, as Joyful Exiles has established.  The lengthy document trail at Joyful Exiles has also illustrated that an executive elder in at least once case was perfectly willing to misrepresent the nature of the entire disciplinary/termination process to a member of Mars Hill back in 2007.  Mars Hill also had a history in which executive elders published partial statements about former pastors that omitted significant details like nearly 40% salary cuts without mentioning playing a consulting role in the policy shifts that led to those cuts, or to how the replacement of a campus pastor was given a full salary without having to really show up to do his job during the same year that the earlier campus pastor was making a lot less money and by Driscoll's own account had to deal with constant pain.

And for those who used to be Mars Hill Church members seeking to resolve something from the past, including the majority in the news stories that have not been at our church in roughly six years, the best way to do that is not through the media but rather by meeting with a Mars Hill pastor. Our desire is for reconciliation between us and you. This won’t mean we’ll always see eye to eye, but can and should talk face to face in a spirit of humility and grace. Please submit requests by phone or email so we can begin this process. We offer this all as a means of opening up a line of reconciliation in the hopes of making it as easy for you as possible.

Refer to Joyful Exiles for an example of how Mars Hill pastors opted to deal with Bent Meyer oand Paul Petry when they sought to meet after the decisions were made for termination.  It looks even more now than it did a year ago that Mars Hill's big priority was to avoid any media discussion.  Sadly Mars Hill is even this weekend leaning on its use of technology as a way to combine the experience of fourteen campuses for a big Easter 2013 celebration.  Mars Hill, it's tough to have it both ways on technology and media use.  If there hadn't been what Justin Dean called "unclear communication" Andrew couldn't have known about that escalation letter.  If Mars Hill and Acts 29 had not recorded apparently any and every stray remark Driscoll's ever made nobody would have felt obliged to scrube the woodchipper incident from "The Man".  If when confronted by the fact that Driscoll shared a story of running a pastor through a woodchipper Mars Hill response or Acts 29 response is simply to remove that segment from the sermon all that suggests is that Mark Driscoll has some people in his corner who are willing to remove material that makes him sound bad.  Thing is, the clip was out there for so many years the contents have been reproduced in a couple of places.  The woodchipper incident will live on via internet for a while.

Now who among leadership at Mars Hill has gotten in touch with Bent Meyer or Paul Petry?  What was the Mars Hill idea of reconciliation?  A little bit of that can be gleaned from Mars Hill Refuge.  It's worth noting that Bill Clem has since transitioned out of Mars Hill. 

So now that it's been more than a year since that call for reconciliation what's come of it?  Was it more than just an attempt at damage control where Mars Hill coverage in the media was concerned?  What meetings took place?  Did leadership take any initiative to work toward reconciliation in cases where members and former members felt hurt by men who were by that time no longer even employed by Mars Hill or who had spread out to other campuses beyond Puget Sound?  Does Mars Hill consider there to be a statute of limitations past which reconciliation isn't an interesting or worthy goal? 

Tim Gaydos on leading within Mars Hill in 2008 and in 2013

For those who read this, there's some backstory to Gaydos' arrival within leadership at Mars Hill that could be easily overlooked

March 2, 2008
Part 9 of Religion Saves
REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE

Well, howdy, Mars Hill. My name’s Mark, if you’re new. I’m one of the pastors of the church. This is Tim Gaydos. He’s also one of the pastors of the church. One of the things that’s really working for us and we’re really thrilled about is our multi-campus approach. We’re meeting in I think 16 services now. You’d know more than me. Sixteen services now in what’s gonna be six locations here shortly. Pastor Tim will inform you about that. We’re opening a brand new campus in Downtown Seattle in the Belltown area. He is the campus pastor spearheading the charge.

So I brought him for a couple a reasons. I want him to just tell you a little bit about his story and what God’s doing so that if God should want you to be a part of that, we’d love to have you join the core and help launch the downtown campus. And if nothing else, you can all be in prayer for he and his team as they’re gearing up for the March 16 debut. So why don’t you start, buddy. Let ’em know kinda who you are, where you grew up, a little bit of your story, and then we’ll jump in on the launch March 16.

Tim Gaydos: Yeah, cool. I’m a native Seattleite, born and raised here in Seattle. Not many of us, but definitely have a huge love for the city and for Seattle. Grew up in a Christian home, basically turned away from the faith, turned away from Jesus growing up, and basically used the city and used it to pursue my own saturation, my own pleasure, my own fulfillment. Pillaged it, abused it. And shortly before my 21st birthday, Jesus absolutely grabbed me and changed my heart, gave me new desires, new distinctions. And from that point on, really, he’s given me a heart to serve and love our city which I abused, really, and consumed and Jesus audibly called my wife and I to serve here at Mars Hill and to serve in the downtown core. [emphasis added] So we’re just excited to be able to bring hopefully what Jesus is gonna do of vival in the heart of Seattle.

Mark Driscoll: Explain the vival versus revival.

Tim Gaydos: Right. Well the vival something that we’re praying for because there really is no re. We’re praying for a vival ’cause we’re in a pre-Christian state here in the downtown core. God’s gospel really hasn’t penetrated the downtown core, and so that’s what we’re praying for and we’re really expecting God to do huge, miraculous things downtown.

Mark Driscoll: Explain the place God gave you and the building he’s opened up. It’s a cool story.

Tim Gaydos: Oh, man. It’s amazing. Back in September or so, God opened up a door. We were able to get a building significantly under market value. Just so happened to be No. 1 on Mayor Nickels’ hit list of clubs that he wanted to get rid of. There was a couple things – some shootings and stabbing and things like that, nothing too terrible, but just a couple things like that. But anyways, over the last few months, we’ve seen just a massive redemption and transformation take place in that building. Condom dispensers are not turned into baby-changing stations, and the go-go dancer cages are now it’s gonna be used as a coat rack, just great things are happening there. So we’re--

Mark Driscoll: All true stories, by the way.

Tim Gaydos: So we’re just – and so many people are moving into the downtown core, so many culture-makers, and culture-creators. And a lotta churches are actually selling of their properties, but we’re going into the heart and we’re just excited for what God’s gonna do.

So it's useful to bear the above in mind when reading the following from Tim Gaydos :

For the past seven years it has been a great joy and privilege to be a part of what God is doing at Mars Hill Church. These last few weeks Brittany and I have spent a great deal of time praying and discerning God’s call upon our lives for the future and what would be the best use of my gifts and skills. It is bitter sweet as we announce that we believe God is moving us on to something new. Therefore, I have decided to resign my position as Lead Pastor of Mars Hill Downtown Seattle.

We believe God has made it clear to us that we have a new season of life and ministry ahead of us. This was a very hard decision for Brittany and I, as we do love the people of Mars Hill so dearly. Although we are very confident that you will continue to be cared for by the leadership at Mars Hill.


POSTSCRIPT:

About that "significantly under market value" thing, here's an old post asking some questions about the market value of Tabella and how much Mars Hill paid for it.  That the executive elders were in sufficient number was the case earlier in 2007.  Whether or not the executive elders provided sufficient written notice of the purchase is something that, unsurprisingly, the executive elders felt they had adequately handled.  All that taken into consideration, paying as much as MH did for Tabella during the time when MH conceded that the 50th street property kinda wasn't maybe ever able to be used for the big grand vision Mark Driscoll cast in Confessions of a Reformission Rev was not ideally timed.







it's Saturday, a particular Saturday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNj2BXW852g
Which is why this legendary performance by Blind Willie Johnson is appropriate because, if you know the piece, you know this piece fits the day. 

Friday, March 29, 2013

Cinemagogue: Harleman on Oz--chasing greatness, lacking goodness


http://cinemagogue.com/2013/03/28/chasing-greatness-lacking-goodness/

... It doesn’t matter what position you have in life – plumber or paleontologist, pugilist or playwright – the temptation to pursue greatness at the expense of one’s goodness is a powerful thing. Even a pastor is not immune, and thus we all face this temptation: treating people like objects for our advancement instead of objects of our love an service, as tools instead of trusted friends. This isn’t to say we shouldn’t pursue excellence, but we always need to be counting the cost, and the motivations, lest we pave over people in our personal passions and pursuit.

There's a little more, of course, but this is the pull quote to see if you'll read more.  :)

That there are plenty of ruminations here on how empires are built upon foundations of human sacrifice is not hard to establish.  It's also not difficult to establish that one of the recurring themes here is that whatever legacy you believe you're pursuing or creating you should steer clear (to put it nicely) of building a legacy upon a foundation of human sacrifice.  That people don't literally bleed and die, that animals aren't literally slaughtered in a ritual offering, does not mean that we don't see plenty of empires and legacies and little kingdoms and great nations whose legacies are predicated on human sacrifice. The more brilliant principalities can convince you to give up your own life willingly in exchange for having a share in the promise of glory. 

If whoever would be greatest must be the servant of all holds any weight some of that weight may be in telling us whose life should be sacrificed in the pursuit of what sort of legacy the teacher was working toward. 

oh, great, Seattle freeway closure

http://www.king5.com/traffic/news/Seattle-freeway-closure-could-back-up-weekend-traffic-200595461.html

Monday, March 25, 2013

Guastavino Guitar Sonata No. 1, movements 1 and 2 played by Daniel Corr

Last year I wrote about a wonderful guitar recital given by Daniel Corr at the Frye Art Museum. I was particularly struck by Guastavino's first guitar sonata and now that Daniel has videos of the first two movements I'd like you to give them a watch and listen to a fantastic guitar sonata.  It's a fine guitar sonata that gets a wonderful interpretation from Daniel.  The audio is also quite good.

Guastavino: Sonata I. 1st movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXPyog6uRrY
2nd movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rg17RNYMEo

Don't consider this cheating when it comes to Wenatchee writing about music, there are times when merely writing about music is no substitute for being able to hear music.  :) 

Sunday, March 24, 2013

okay, so writing about music hasn't exactly happened

I am really sorry about that ... but since I've been writing actual music I admit that there's a time when a person has to go with the inspiration to write ABOUT music or to actually write music.  Much as Wenatchee The Hatchet loves criticism as an art form (which, of course, it has been for centuries) Wenatchee also loves composing music.  Having completed a big pile of preludes and fugues for solo guitar (that still need the duet adaptation treatment) Wenatchee wants to tackle a little cycle of solo guitar sonatas.  Not necessarily going to end up writing eleven as Matiegka apparently did ... but we'll try to get to writing about Matiegka's guitar sonatas some time this year.

Yeah, promises, promises.  :)  We may have to go dig up videos of some neat pieces to ensure those of you who read this blog for articles on music have things to listen to. 

We can probably arrange for that ... . 

Thabiti Anyabwile, The Gospel Coalition, and solidarity

Now among some bloggers there can be a common supposition that participants in The Gospel Coalition may be more lockstep on a variety of issues than may be the case.  Now to be sure a lone dissenter could be dismissed as the exception that proves the rule but if the rule was, say, that everyone in The Gospel Coalition must somehow agree with certain well-known participants or associates with The Gospel Coalition then, well, Anyabwile's managed to take issue with a couple of things in fairly high profile ways.

On the invitation of T. D. Jakes to Elephant Room 2
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabitianyabwile/2011/10/01/collateral-damage-in-the-invitation-of-t-d-jakes-to-the-elephant-room/

On an apparently new discussion/debate on Doug Wilson's views on slavery
http://www.dougwils.com/The-Bible-Culture-and-Race/with-a-bit-of-menthol.html
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabitianyabwile/2013/03/12/why-respond-publicly-to-douglas-wilsons-black-and-tan/
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabitianyabwile/2013/03/13/doug-wilsons-views-on-race-racism-slavery-and-the-bible/

Normally Wenatchee The Hatchet doesn't link to a ton of stuff on The Gospel Coalition but it seems to be worth noting that while some bloggers assume TGC people are lockstep all the way on everything this is observably disprovable enough to be worth some note.  The alluded-to bloggers may still dislike Anywabile's points and positions on a variety of things but the claim that TGC members just toe the line all the time is, by now, something that's not so simply assumed, at least as far as Wenatchee The Hatchet is concerned. 




Event Horizon on the Tim Gaydos resignation

http://forthegloryofthelamb.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/dear-ephesus/#more-153

I wanted to write this post about a month ago, but something about it wasn’t right. I’m glad I didn’t because a few new developments have changed the dynamics of our church and made it all the more interesting.
 
This past week at Mars Hill Church Downtown Seattle, our Lead Pastor Tim Gaydos unexpectedly resigned. The immediate reaction of course is to look for scandal as our leaders well know. I’m fully expecting this from the usual Mars Hill internet trolls. Unfortunately for them there’s nothing sinful or scandalous to uncover. Pastor Gaydos is simply being called to something else, which I suspect will involve a great deal of preaching and teaching, two things with which he is richly blessed. The only people who knew about his impending resignation were Pastor Gaydos and his wife. Even our Executive Elders, Pastors Mark, David and Sutton, were all surprised, which was plainly visible on their faces at our member’s meeting on March 11th.
 
Now Wenatchee does not self-identify as a Mars Hill internet troll in any fashion, though perhaps there are people out there who will insist on such an identification, erroneous as that is.  Even if that label is chosen that would be from ignorance of the number of conspiracy theories Wenatchee has publicly shot down within the comments sections at this blog for want of any evidence. 
 
Now if Gaydos is being called to some other capacity in which teaching and preaching are things he gets to do then more power to him.  :)  May it go well for him.  Anywhere in any church capacity would likely provide more opportunities to preach and teach than heading a multi-site installment at Mars Hill at this point. 
 
In addition to Pastor Gaydos, both Pastors Tim Beltz and Will Little are also resigning and will exit over the next couple of months. Pastor Beltz announced his resignation at the same meeting. Following a recent trip to an Acts 29 church plant in Louisville, KY, Beltz witnessed a great need for an Executive Pastor there. The elders of that church have asked him to come serve in that capacity and after much prayer Beltz accepted. This occurred over the previous two or three weeks.
 
How recently the trip to an Acts 29 church plant in Kentucky took place could be fleshed out. 
Tim Beltz' role in the 2007 re-org and connection to notifying Mars Hill of Moi's transition out of leadership got discussed at some length here. Why Beltz stopped being an executive elder within Mars Hill has never really gotten much explanation and if the author at Event Horizon can clear that up that'd be great.

 
In the case of Pastor Little, from what I understand he has his fingers in several projects within our community, in addition to caring for his family and raising his children. After seeking counsel from several elders within the church, he’s decided to step down so he can focus his attention on some of these other responsibilities. Again, this took time to develop and was likely building over several months.
 
This is another as yet unsourced statement.  Little's going to be a remarkably obscure name for anyone who wasn't actually inside the culture of Mars Hill. Wenatchee hasn't seen Will or his wife in a few years but Wenatchee sincerely hopes they're both well and in good health. If Little isn't even listed as a pastor in the pastors roster anymore it's unclear what responsibilities within the Mars Hill community Little would be taking part in. Whatever those responsibilities are would not appear to involve any formal pastoral role and what formal role Little will be playing within Mars Hill, if any, remains unclear. 
 
In other words, neither of these resignations have anything to do with Pastor Gaydos stepping down.

Some of us don't know or care if three elders resigning in such close proximity at a single campus in such a short space are connected in any way.

Then after all the above, there's this....

Why waste so much time on this? Because it’s tempting to ignore the facts and pretend this is all connected; that it’s some grand conspiracy. We, as members, don’t need to speculate in such a way because all it does is cause harm. Quite frankly, we don’t need to do it because there are plenty of haters out there who will do it for us. Those people are either ignorant, dumb or aligned with the Enemy. If you find yourself agreeing with them, stop and examine your motives. I would question whether you truly love our church.

Who's tempted to ignore what facts?  Now if things have been documented, wonderful, document.  Wenatchee has seen plenty of people assert plenty of things but documentation is not always produced.  Consider the old case, blogged about at some lengthy here, in which a Jeremy Echols asserted that the reasons for Moi being "de-eldered" were explained in a document that had been made available on The City to anyone who was a member of Mars Hill.  What that document was was never explained and what it said could not even be established unless one had access to it, but Echols was confident of the statements in the document. 

The author at Event Horizon may well be able to document all of the claims pertaining to Gaydos, Beltz and Little and producing video or documentary evidence of those claims, should he manage to do that, would be great.  It would go far in laying to rest the speculation he seems to be concerned about.

From what he's written so far, the author at Event Horizon seems to be relatively new to Mars Hill or he wouldn't wonder why Driscoll has joked about eschatology fans in the way he has.  If he was around about 11 years ago when the theonomists were doing their thing more than Secret Rapture fans were then he'd have a bit more perspective.  Driscoll and the elders at Mars Hill have deliberately avoided committing either to something like historicist postmillenialism or futurist premillenialism.  Wenatchee has no truck with millenarianism in general and a survey of Church history will show that many splinter movements have tended to well up from millenarianist views.  Pick some of the Protestant-derived cults in the last two centuries in the United States and peculiar variants of millenarian thought are often to be found, particularly in movements that propose that their movement will get back to the vitality of the early, apostolic period. 

The reference to Ephesus with connection to Mars Hill may be apt, though, because while in the epistle to the Ephesians there's commendation in Revelation Ephesus is described as having lost its first love.  Some of us who were once members might find the comparison of Mars Hill to Ephesus to be disappointing given the larger trajectory of Ephesus within the canon ... but perhaps also apt.  It's not exactly the same church it was ten years ago back when Mark was preaching through Ephesians the last time.