Thursday, June 07, 2012

The pay and work of Bill Clem and Lief Moi circa 2007 at Mars Hill, part 2



http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

Page 7 of 145


A letter from Pastor Lief Moi


November 9, 2007


Dear Mars Hill Members


The following is a brief account and explanation of what has transpired with me and Mars Hill Church over the past few months. I hope this gives comfort and answers to those of you who have been concerned.


In June of this year I was asked to step down from the executive team and the role of campus pastor at Ballard.  The primary reason, and I believe a valid one, was that I do not have the administrative skills to run a campus the size of Ballard. Although I agreed with the assessment of my lack of Kingly skills, I felt that I was being removed from a role that God had called me to and as a result I resigned from the elder board. There were many elders who spoke with me and asked me to reconsider, but at the time my heart was hard and I was not interested. After much contemplation, prayer and speaking with Pastor Mark, I asked to be reinstated as an elder and the vote was unanimous with one abstention to reinstate me.




Because of a major role change and the re-org, it was determined that my salary was to be cut by almost 40%. At that time I told Pastor Jamie that I would not be able to stay on full time would consider a part time position so I could work on other means of providing for my family.




So as of today I am working 20 hours a week in Ballard counseling on Sundays and Wednesday evenings. I need you all to know and I ask your forgiveness for times during this process that I have not thought about the gospel first but considered my feelings most important and therefore have sinned. This has been one of the most difficult times of my life but am now looking to the future with my hope in Jesus and trust in the elders of Mars Hill to leada us into what Jesus would have us do and be. And it is this that I would ask you to do as well. These men love Jesus and they love you. We might not always agree on the method but we can always agree on Jesus.




Blessings
Pastor Lief




From Appendix B (page 115 of 145) 


Mars Hill Re-organization document, previously sent to emmbers on June 23, 2007


...Initially, Pastor Lief Moi was uncomfortable with the transition plans and uncertain that his conscience would allow him to continue as an Elder of Mars Hill Church. This precipitated several tense and difficult meetings for us as an Elder team, striving for unity but also the most effective way to organize and lead our church. After a few weeks off with his family to think and pray, Lief Moi resigned from his position on staff as well as his office as Elder of Mars hill Church. Loving our brother and unwilling to olet this matter go without every possbile effort for reconciliation Pastor Mark, and Pastor Bill Clem spent hours laboring over Lief's concerns and frustrations. Following the extremely fruitful meeting with Pastors Mark and Bill, Lief sought reconciliation with several pastors who felt they had been wronged in the matter by him, and submitted himself humbly for restoration as an Elder of the church. The Elders assembled, discussed the matter soberly, and after much prayer and discussion voted to restore Lief as an Elder of Mars Hill Church and a member of the Ballard Campus team. Lief will continue to employ his unique gifts, which many of our members have been blessed by for years, to strength faith, fortify marriages, and equip the saints for acts of service as we love our city with Jesus.  This process put many of our men's faith, endurance, constitution, and their trust in Jesus to the test.  It drove many men deep into God's Word for wisdom, seeking His discernment and leading through prayer.  Despite sleepless nights and frayed nerves, we are a truly a stronger Elder body because of this incredible labor God has shepherded us through. In His wisdom, He has made us bear this weighty issue as we move to a structure that distributes and delegates authority and mandates more trust and confidence in one another. Praying together as 24 men united by our love of Jesus and His great commission, it is evident He has uniquely tempered us for the coming season as a lovingly unified yet honest and effective team. 

Which pastors? Given that two men were fired because Jamie Munson claimed to have been disrespected by them, Munson's a possibility.  Munson took umbrage at older guys not respecting his spiritual authority with Bent Meyer and Paul Petry.  It wouldn't be a huge leap to at least suggest that Lief Moi, as an older man and a co-founding elder, could have had some doubts about Munson being the executive elder and lead pastor.  If it was Munson who scouted out what had become the 50th street property it is now sufficiently documented that that purchase turned out to be a boondoggle.  The property is still valuable, of course, but the grand vision Driscoll outlined for it in Reformission Rev is a bust.

We don't get to find out from these documents which elders felt offended by Lief Moi  but this does establish that both Driscoll and Clem were involved in the case that Moi was told he had to step down. This sheds some light on Driscoll's subsequent comment that when Clem was ready he was transitioned into leadership of Mars Hill Ballard.

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/05/how-mars-hill-acquired-west-seattle.html 
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/06/mars-hill-west-seattle-campus-and.html 
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/06/how-mars-hill-acquired-west-seattle.html 
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/06/pay-and-work-of-bill-clem-and-lief-moi.html 

Summary notes for those who won't follow the links.  Clem and Noriega (former felon and remarried man) were approached by Mark Driscoll to let Mars Hill have use of Doxa.  While Noriega got voted on to the Board of Directors in 2007 Moi had been talked out of being lead pastor at Ballard.  He resigned and was talked into returning to eldership and given a nearly 40 percent pay cut.  He ended up working just half time.

But here's something else that is available in the 145 document that you should know about. During the period in which Moi announced he'd been given a nearly 40% pay cut he was also in very poor health.  How do we know this?  Because Mark Driscoll himself confirmed it here.

http://joyfulexiles.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/elders-response-to-questions-11-9-07.pdf

page 23-24/145


This is from the section Pulpit and Preaching 
responses submitted by Pastor Mark Driscoll


Q. Will we get to hear Pastor Lief preach again some time soon?  I haven't heard him preach since the Mother's Day sermon and while I can understand why that sermon got pulled I hope he gets to preach some more in teh future if he's in better health (I read the prayer request that said he was in bad shape and his wife was not in good health, either). My hope is that we get to hear at least a little preaching from all our pastors at some point. I haven't heard a sermon from Pastor Tim Smith in a while or from Pastor Bubba at all and Pastor Bill's sermons on Jude were fantastic.


A. First, please do pray for the health of my friend and brother Pastor Lief. He has had very painful back problems for many years and he still stuffers from constant pain. ... 

So while Clem was given months off at a time on full salary Moi had his pay cut by nearly forty percent.  This persisted despite the fact that Mark Driscoll knew co-founding elder Lief Moi had back problems and was in constant pain.

Just a few days before this document was released Mark Driscoll preached "The Rebel's Guide to Joy in Humility" where he touted the virtues of James Noriega.  No mention of Noriega's felonies, his second marriage, just a mention of how Driscoll approached Noriega and Clem about giving Mars Hill the Doxa property because that was what would be best for Jesus.  Noriega agreed with Driscoll that giving Doxa to Mars Hill was best for Jesus. So Noriega, the felon and remarried man was promoted to the Board of Directors and put in charge of recovery groups by November 2007 and Driscoll could ask people to pray for Lief Moi, whose salary had been cut by almost forty percent and who was struggling with constant back pain. By November 2008 there was no mention of Moi at all, he was no longer an elder. Driscoll knew Moi had a forty percent pay cut and knew Moi's back was in terrible shape and his stance was to ask members to pray for the guy.

And a few days later Driscoll would go on to preach his infamous November 18, 2007 sermon in Edinburgh on the good bits in the Song of Songs.

These are not things you'll find in Driscoll's interview with Justin Taylor about why so many people left Mars Hill in early 2008.  You can put together by now that those people weren't leaving because the doctrinal requirements were ramped up.

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

keep up the good work
See my earlier comment.
There are so many wounded families out there because of the cult called mars hill........
Pastor of 25 years

Cari Lemour said...

To be fair, Pastor Clem was given paid time off because many donated their sick leave to him. It's one thing to have constant back pain (which he had before MH) and to ave a wife who was dying and passed on during this time. Ask Clem about this. If you are going to make such claims, then please include the entirety of it.

Wenatchee the Hatchet said...

You've read part 1, too?

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/06/pay-and-work-of-bill-clem-and-lief-moi.html

If you can convince people to corroborate your statement about donated sick time they're welcome to come by and verify it. If people want an invitation, those who donated their sick time to Bill Clem are welcome to name themselves here any time they wish. Clarifying comments from people can certainly be handy.

Meanwhile, that Clem was paid a full salary during the 2007-2008 period while Moi's salary was cut by nearly 40% in the same period is still what it was. Donated sick time for Clem, nice though that was, is a bit moot when the topic is noting that one was paid a full salary while the other was given a substantial salary cut.

If people feel comfortable commenting in a way where they can establish who they are and that Cari's observations are accurate, welcome.

Anonymous said...

"[D]onated sick time..."

ROFLMAO

What a crock.