Sunday, April 01, 2012

The WayBack Machine and Mars Hill campuses

For those who remember this:
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/02/mars-hill-clarifies-church-discipline.html

I mentioned there:

With a little help from The Wayback Machine on the Ballard campus we can discover that a cached copy of the site for Mars Hill Ballard lists James Noriega as a Biblical Living Pastor. There were 14 captures between June 28 2008 and December 18 2009. This would correspond with the above-mentioned link to an interview with James Noriega describing himself as pastor co-leading the Redemption Groups, though from that information you would not be able to necessarily establish that he was a Ballard pastor since Noriega's long-time connections to the West Seattle campus were well-established within Mark Driscoll's November 2007 sermon. Perhaps he was moved to the Ballard campus and his West Seattle campus profile just became a dead link.

Shortly after I posted that, on 2/27/2012 I got this comment:

Anonymous said...


I don’t know what the building’s worth – $4 million, whatever. He said, “Well what’s the deal?” I said, “Give us the building, resign as elders, work through the membership process, work through the eldership process. I guarantee you nothing – no power, no job, no eldership. If you meet the qualifications and the men vote you in, we’ll make you an elder, but I guarantee you no job. Nothing. If you believe it’s right for Jesus, give us the building, resign, give up all power of authority, give up your position. Walk away from it all for the cause of Jesus.”

He said, “Okay, I think it’s best for Jesus.” He resigned, voted to hand us the building and the people.


Could that maybe be why he is now the head pastor of Ballard and Lief went bye-bye? We'll never know. How many people at Doxa thought it was such a sweet deal at the time? How many long-time members who contributed financial support over their lifetimes were treated as castaways? We'll never know. The little people do not matter.
10:50 AM
Delete

Well, point of clarification:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080716081500/http://ballard.marshillchurch.org/pastors-staff/

Which establishes James Noriega was on staff at the Ballard.  It also establishes that Bubba Jennings was the campus pastor, not Clem.  So for the Anonymous who proposed Clem was offered the job in place of Moi, sorry, but the webcaptures at the WayBack Machine of the Ballard campus never present any indication that your theory has any backing. Jennings was so obviously Campus Pastor for Ballard after Moi stopped having the role that that is something we can easily know. The WayBack Machine has proven handy in establishing that. Jennings was put in charge of Ballard.  Clem didn't start having the more high-ranking campus pastor ranking at Ballard until some time in in the last year or so.  I also know enough people who were attending Ballard in 08 and 09 that I'd hear people say that Mark's sermons were mediocre but that Jennings had some memorable sermons in that period.

Not too shockingly during that period Driscoll's sermons did not register in informal conversation as much as those by campus pastors.  I say "not too shockingly" because campus pastors actually had some kind of week in and week out connection to at least some of the people they were preaching, which could scarcely have been said about Driscoll at that point. 

But if you'll notice recent listings Bubba Jennings is listed as the Executive Pastor at Mars Hill Ballard.  In other words, he's still the one actually running functional stuff.  Clem may do the preaching and so on but Jennings appears to have been keeping things running at Ballard for a while.
So Jennings has either been the "lead pastor" or the "executive pastor" as far as I can tell at Ballard since possibly as far back as late 2007.  So Jennings has had the functional leadership role over the years and there's no compelling public witness that Clem was tapped to take over Moi's role.  When I have said at various places I don't just endorse explanations for this and that even when I let them get posted it's because I try to do a bit of research to find out how plausible the theory is given what's on record.  Not what people anonymously share (though that could be true) what's verifiable.  Of course as careful readers of this blog over the years will have noticed I've begun documenting how Mars Hill has suspended links and previously cited references. 
Which rather naturally gets me to the next part of this post.  Now as the WayBack Machine goes you'll find something interesting if you put this into its search rather than the org address:

http://ballard.marshill.com/pastors-staff/

automatically redirects to here:

http://marshill.com/ballard

And this link?

http://marshill.com/pastors/

Try to get to that link from anywhere in the Mars Hill site and see if you can get there.

You may notice all the campus blog archives are still down. Apparently all that great content is just suspended for no apparent reason. 

And this:

http://ballard.marshill.com/

Isn't archived by the WayBack Machine at all. Even though this ...

http://ballard.marshill.com/2009/03/17/meet-the-staff-pastor-james-noriega/

Obviously dates from 3/17/2009.  You would think that a website page that went up a bit more than three years ago would have been crawled by the WayBack Machine at least once.  Nope.

So, you see, if you're going to use The WayBack Machine you need to have some pretty clear ideas what you're looking for. 
http:////marshill.fm//midrash/index

You might get this a lot.


Loading...
http://www.marshill.fm:80/midrash | 23:40:41 Mar 3, 2001
Got an HTTP 302 response at crawl time
Redirecting to...
http://www.marshill.fm/midrash/

But then this works [well, not quite, but it worked well enough to get the image below]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010713225545/http://www.marshill.fm/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General&number=1&DaysPrune=60&LastLogin=


No, you won't find "Pussified Nation" there.  Screen captures on The WayBack Machine don't cover everything.  As they'd put it, "Bummer".  Still it does take me back all the same.  Check out the thread title "Who do single women submit to?"  That is if I made the image big enough to read.

1 comment:

chris e said...

Following the William Wallace tangent, and assuming this isn't an April fools joke, the article referenced is interesting:

http://shoredfragments.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/hyper-masculinity-and-the-development-of-a-queer-consciousness-the-surprising-contribution-of-conservative-evangelicalism/

Though I suspect you'd be less sympathetic to the view that Driscoll has been misrepresented